Bleeder Screw

[rbattelle]

So today I decided to flush my brakes. Something I've been meaning to do for awhile. I even got out the camera and took lots of pictures so I could post a nice little "how to" on here.



Got everything set up, and started in at the right rear caliper. Bleeder screw was tight, so I sprayed some PB Blaster on it and let it sit a few minutes. When I went back and tried to loosen it, the result is depicted in the photo below. #@$%!



I'll buy new calipers for both sides (since I'm willing to bet the other rear will do the same darn thing). Rock Auto has them for $56. 79 each plus $50 core. Not sure if that's my best deal. When I get the new calipers I'll be able to post a nice little thread about how to replace a caliper on these trucks and how to remove a broken bleeder screw.



I figure I'll get the new calipers in my hands, then remove the old one and first try to replace the bleeder. Then if I'm successful I can just return the new calipers. Anyone have any suggestions for extracting the bleeder? I guess it's finally time to invest in an extractor set.



The only saving grace here is that the bleeder snapped in such a way that it doesn't leak at all, so the vehicle is still fully operational.



I'm actually not too mad about it, since this will be a chance to learn how to repair caliper bleeders and how to replace calipers on this vehicle. I just hope nothing else snaps when I remove the caliper.



Do you guys think I should order a complete set of 4 calipers, in case the same stupidity happens with all the calipers? Can anyone recommend a high-quality (and affordable) screw extractor set? I was thinking of this one.



-Ryan

 

[lil red cummins]

hi ryan,



i can't believe the bleeder broke off on such a new vehicle. unbelievable. your truck looks so clean!!



i'd say first of all, spray the PB blaster on a few days ahead on the other bleeders, making sure it also goes down the center of the bleeder. soak time is a good thing.



i've never had good luck drilling and extracting a bleeder. i guess it is possible but has always backfired for me.



snap-on (and maybe others) has a setup with a left twist drill bit and spiral extractor. i haven't actually used one, i just saw it on the truck. looked like a good system. the extractors are much shorter than on the northern set. maybe only 1/2" long with a shoulder to stop on.



i have been known to crack the line loose, unbolt the caliper and hold it so the line is on top and bleed it through the line. i have saved a few dollars on older vehicles doing this, where it just wasn't worth putting in the money.

however, if you can get them for $57 exchange, it is well worth it on a newer truck like yours. if you do replace them, make sure to put anti-sieze compound on the bleeders and put on the dust covers when done.



i would only replace the calipers that cause you trouble. as new as yours is, doing just one shouldn't be an issue, even though it is recommended to replace calipers in sets.



on a different subject, i am curious why you are starting on the left rear first.



i have always been of the school of "closest to master cylinder first".



i know there are those that say the exact opposite.



again, just curious. (always willing to hear different thoughts on this subject).



good luck,



jim

 

[GWBourne]

snap-on (and maybe others) has a setup with a left twist drill bit and spiral extractor. i haven't actually used one, i just saw it on the truck. looked like a good system. the extractors are much shorter than on the northern set. maybe only 1/2" long with a shoulder to stop on.

i use them at work all the time on steel screws. 8 and 6 32's screws. they work well it you take your time. why replace the calipers when you can replace JUST the bleeder?



also sears has a set of screw extractors that are square that work a little better some times. they bit better. you drill a hole, tap the extractor in and then use the handle or a pair of pliers on the extractor. might wrk, might not.



IF you cant get it out and have to replace it with as few miles on your truck i would just replace th eone or at most the opposite side.



grant

 

[jwduke]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! You ALWAYS want to start at the farthest point from the MC!



Ryan, you are RIGHT the way you doing it!

 

[rbattelle]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I was taught that you start from the farthest point from the master cylinder, and that's always the way I've done it.



I ordered 2 new rear calipers from Rock Auto (awesome place). I will attempt to remove the bleeder screws using some sort of extractor with the caliper still on the vehicle. If I fail, then I'll have replacement calipers on hand.



Good advice on bleeding from the line, lil red. I will keep that in mind.



It's ironic that I've probably done 25 brake jobs on various vehicles and NEVER had a single bleeder screw break. Here I have a nice clean well-maintained vehicle less than 3 years old and under 50k miles and at least 1 bleeder is welded in place. The bleeders on all the other calipers look exactly like the one that broke. As lil red points out I will soak them with PB blaster for a couple days prior to attempting removal.



I think the bleeders are overtight from the factory. Combine that with some rust, and you end up like me. D'OH!



Should I heat them up when I try the extractors?



-Ryan

 

[lil red cummins]

my first thought is no, don't heat. i have concerns about hot brake fluid spraying out, should the fitting break loose.



i guess if you use gloves and glasses and heat quickly on the caliper casting around the fitting, it could help.



safety first



jim

 

[JHardwick]

Should I heat them up when I try the extractors?



-Ryan

That was my first thought, was a little heat. It doesn't have to be cherry red, but a fair amount of heat always yields different expansion rates and a broken seal. I wouldn't be afraid to try that on the rest either. It doesn't take much really, and the fluid is gonna be flushed anyway. A little propane torch should be enough, just don't get so hot that you start melting seals.



BTW, I've always been told to start the furthest away from the master cylinder too ... ... ... ... but, wouldn't that be the RR?

 

[rbattelle]

BTW, I've always been told to start the furthest away from the master cylinder too ... ... ... ... but, wouldn't that be the RR?

That's where I am... passenger side rear.



I think I'm going to go with the extractor set from Northern that I posted earlier.



-Ryan

 

[DMesloh]

You might try tapping on the caliper around the bleeder screw after you drill it out and install the extractor I've had success doing this, if that won't work the heat should worse case you can't get it out and have to replace the caliper.

 

[tkerrigan]

Looks like it sticks out a little bit, if you have access to a mig welder, weld a nut on it. Get your heat and something to get ahold of at the same time.

 

[JHardwick]

Got everything set up, and started in at the left rear caliper.

-Ryan

Okay, I'm with you now, pic shows RR, just a simple typo.

 

[Hoefler]

See if you can find "Rigid" brand extractors. I bought mine off the Snap On truck. They have drill bits, drilling guides, and straight fluted extractors. Since there is already a hole centered in it, drill it out as big as you can with out getting in the threads, tap in the extractor, install a collar, and use 2 box end wrenches like a t-handle and remove. You do not want to use a screw in extractor. It will expand the bleeder as it draws itself in making it tighter. I have 5 different styles of extractors and have found the Rigids work best in this situation.

 

[JHardwick]

You do not want to use a screw in extractor. It will expand the bleeder as it draws itself in making it tighter.

That's a good point, I've has this in other situations.

 

[Spooled-up]

You might want to think about expanding your tool collection

If you don't already have one, I've heard great things about the vacuum bleeders . You can find them at EGR Brakes too.



If you're going to replace the bleeder anyway, you might consider a set of these. You won't need help with bleeding the brakes, and you won't need the vacuum bleeder either. Speed Bleeder



Not sure which way I'm going to go, but this thread will help me decide as I haven't messed with my brakes at all yet.

 

[CHubbard]

Fix for broken bleeder screw

I broke the driver side rear bleeder screw on my 2003 2500 4x4. Tried several things, finally braking a square easy out from Sears in the 3/16" hole I drilled. At that point, I removed the caliper from the truck. Took the caliper to a machine shop to have the bolt 'burned out'. They happened to have a micro wire feed welder. The person said wait here. He made a 'puddle' of weld on the bleeder screw and pushed a 1/4" bolt into the puddle while still molten. Then he took a pair of pliers and easily removed the bolt. No charge.

 

[HOBrian]

Ryan, this bites! How much pressure did you put on it?? I am just wondering because I would like to know how far to push it so others can gauge how much pressure to use and when to stop and figure out a new attack.

 

[rbattelle]

I've already ordered the Hansen (Irwin) set of extractors that I posted earlier. I had considered the possibility that the conical shape of the extractors might force the bleeder tighter against the walls. But wouldn't they do that with every screw you tried to remove anyway? And people seem to be able to use them successfully. If only there were a way to crack it in half the chisel out the two parts.



I also looked at DRILL-OUT extractors, but didn't like the way they work. Any way you look at it, this will be a great learning experience for me! I'm genuinely looking forward to it. I plan to attempt the extraction with the caliper still on the vehicle. If that fails, I'll remove it and replace it with the new caliper. I hadn't planned on drilling out the existing hole in the bleeder at all, and figured I'd just use whichever size extractor fits in there. Considering how small the hole is, perhaps that strategy is not wise. I'd prefer not to snap a brand new extractor.



I'm going to soak it with PB blaster for a couple days prior to the extraction attempt. Then I'll heat it up to a couple hundred degrees before extracting.



Brian, I put quite a bit of torque on it. It's a 10mm size, and I used a 10mm deep 6-point socket and my 1/2" rachet. I had to use the end of the rachet handle (maximum torque), so that sucker is in there SOLID. As I said before, I believe it's overtightened from the factory (based on some things I read from the 2nd gen guys), plus rusted in place for the first few threads.



I knew it was likely to snap as soon as I felt how much force I was applying to that rachet. But it's not like I had any choice. That bleeder had to open, since back then I didn't know about the "remove the brake line" technique.



There's a ton of good advice in this thread.



On edit: I should comment that I have no air tools, only hand tools. I don't have any access to an air hammer or air chisel. What if I stick a center punch on the hole and pound on it a bit with a hammer?



-Ryan

 

[jwduke]

Ryan, I used a easy out (Sears-Craftsman), of the type you have purchased. I sprayed the dickins out of it with P-B Blaster. Let it soak for (About the time to have a cold one & clear your mind) 15-20 minutes. It worked perfect for me on one that had been a rearend for 30 years. Good luck!

 

[MFalkinham]

Brian, I put quite a bit of torque on it. It's a 10mm size, and I used a 10mm deep 6-point socket and my 1/2" rachet. I had to use the end of the rachet handle (maximum torque), so that sucker is in there SOLID. As I said before, I believe it's overtightened from the factory (based on some things I read from the 2nd gen guys), plus rusted in place for the first few threads.


-Ryan

I've seen this happen a bunch of times with bleeder screws and banjo bolts when guys grab the 1/2" drive stuff. I've always gone at it with 3/8" or 1/4" ratchets and six-point sockets to avoid breaking or rounding the screw. After the mandatory soaking with PB Blaster, I always start by applying some light-to-medium torque back and forth on the screw; first loosening it, then tightening it, over & over. By doing this repeatedly the PB Blaster will start to work it's way into the threads. You can also apply the hot wrench, but be careful with calipers due to the rubber seals inside. You have to be gentle and patient, but unless the screw is completed rusted to the bottom of the threads this will loosen it.

Also, when reinstalling the bleeder, I clean the threads with a wire wheel and apply a very light coat of anti-seize to the threads, being careful not to get any where it will contact the brake fluid. I've never had a bleeder seize a second time after doing this.

 

[tkerrigan]

Courtesy of speedbleeder site.



Procedure for removing a broken Speed Bleeder



For those who would like to remove a broken Speed Bleeder themselves, I will explain the best way to remove the broken Speed Bleeder. Read these instructions over and over until you understand the procedure and feel comfortable tackling this job. If you still have questions or don't understand the steps you can call me or e-mail me for clarification.



Do not use an EZ-Out! I can't emphasize this enough! This tool is too brittle and hardened and nine times out of ten you will snap it off and loose any hope of removing the broken part. Before you can remove the broken part you will have to remove the spring and stainless steel ball. You cannot and will not drill through the hardened stainless steel ball. The spring can be removed by using a piece of wire or pick. The ball can be removed with a blast of air from an air compressor. If you still cannot remove the ball because of a burr at the area where the break occurred you can use a drill bit to clean up the burr. Then the blast of air should remove the ball. Next, drill a 1/4" deep hole in the Speed Bleeder with a 5/32" drill bit. A good quality cordless battery powered drill such as "Dewalt" works best for this step. It is easily maneuvered and has a built-in clutch to minimize drill breakage. Try not to go all the way through the bottom of the Speed Bleeder. Then take a 5/32" hex wrench (allen wrench) and tap it into the hole that you just drilled with a hammer. Use a quality hex wrench. A quality hex wrench will be hardened and tempered which makes it strong and ideal for the job. The corners of the 5/32" hex wrench will bite into the sides of the hole forming a hex socket. Then carefully turn out the broken part of the Speed Bleeder. If the wrench spins in the hole and will not remove the broken Speed Bleeder use the next larger size drill bit and corresponding hex wrench. This procedure is one way to remove a broken Speed Bleeder and works very well. Be patient and be careful when doing this procedure. I don't want to see anyone get hurt. Wear eye protection!



The latest way to remove a broken Speed Bleeder if the above procedure fails:



Usually the Speed Bleeder is broken off flush with the caliper. Take a common 3/8 x 16 nut and lay it centered over the broken Speed Bleeder. Then take a GMAW (gas metal arc welder) or wire feed welder and apply weld through the center of the 3/8 nut to weld the nut to the broken Speed Bleeder. Fill the nut flush with the top of the nut with weld and then let it cool. This essentially welds the nut to the broken Speed Bleeder. Take a 9/16" box wrench and turn the nut counter clockwise and remove the broken Speed Bleeder with a few turns. Before performing the weld process take some common clear packaging tape and cover the caliper with a few wraps of tape to protect the caliper from weld splatter. It works very well. After the Speed Bleeder is removed chase the threads with a clean tap of the correct thread size. Then use a razor blade and carefully remove the tape. The caliper is as good as new.