Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Blew the HG... Again!

[wildmanben]

Ok, just got the turbo on, was going to go do some tuning on the AFC since it was warm out. Yes the truck was at operating temp before laying on the boost. Made 49 psi on a few passes and the last one ended in a pop followed by steam. Thought maybe that I blew the frost plug on the back of the block, nope. The HG was sticking out of the back above the frost plug. The head is studded and o-ringed, retorqued every other oil change. Dont understand why it popped again? I thought I could hold more boost than that. I just put in a . 020 Marine HG in April. Now I gots a few questions:



Do I need to have the o-rings redone?

Anything to do to prevent this from happening again?

Thanks in advance. :{

 

[WDimig]

i would have your head resurefaced, and the ring grooves re cut, and make sure they are cut right!!, also check your block with a straight edge, nothing over . 04 thousandths of an inch, if you block is not straight, that may be your problem, and you'll have to have the block machined flat to slove the problem.



wes

 

[wildmanben]

would fire rings be better? Will have to check the block though.

 

[bmoeller]

Whether you go with the fire rings or not, the block and head still need to be flat. The fire rings will hold more boost. The o-rings should hold what you've got right now.



I have heard of head studs breaking before. Are they all still tight?

 

[DJWyckoff]

I with WD on this but I use allen head bolts from fastenal and never have a problem

 

[WDimig]

allen head bolts?? you need studs to torque Fire Rings down properly, studs have more threads per inch than a bolt, and they clamp down better, due to being able to torque higher than a stock head bolt. i would not reccomend anything else but studs on a fire ring, or oring setup, they need to have alot of clamp load on them to seal properly, and once they seal right, they are very hard to blow. ive got 12mm arp's on my truck with a fire ring setup, and the studs are torqued to 130 ft. lb. with moly lube, haven't had a problem since the last headgasket went, that was due to a improperly machined head :-{} almost . 10 thousandths warped from end to end. everyone that does a headgasket job, take it from me, having you sealing surfaces straight is crucial, check everything and recheck, it will save you alot of headache, and $$$ in the future if done right the first time. good luck with your problem.



wes

 

[wildmanben]

checked the head and the block and is still flat since the last HG. So I am thinking that I didnt get the block clean enough. The coolant passage by #6 leaked to the compression ring and then out the back, but no compression leak. So I am thinking it just didnt seal right. Its been seeping for some time now.

 

[woodsrat]

I knew I should have left that turbo set at 42 lbs.

 

[rubberneck]

checked the head and the block and is still flat since the last HG. So I am thinking that I didnt get the block clean enough. The coolant passage by #6 leaked to the compression ring and then out the back, but no compression leak. So I am thinking it just didnt seal right. Its been seeping for some time now.

How much protrusion on your orings? I know that there is quite a bit of "recomendations" on this out there. My orings are out 0. 007" and have been holding for 85K now with daily trips to 50+psi, no studs. Since you stated there are no signs of combustion leak only coolant, i wonder if you have too much protrusion on the oring, not allowing the gasket to seal the cooland passages. Also how many rpms are you turning? A lot of guys are loosing freeze plugs at high rpms due to excessive coolant pressure. I wonder if this may be part of your problem??

 

[wildmanben]

The rings are . 008" I think protrusion? I turn 4000rpm also.



Chuck,

Out of the box I only got 43psi out of it, I adjusted the WG and made 49 now. I need a boost elbow to get higher now. Did you send one out with Joshs turbo?

 

[rubberneck]

Might check into coolant pressure relief. I know there has been alot of talk about that with the guys spinning the rpm's. Either that or a water pump with clipped vanes.

 

[wildmanben]

Pressure relief? Wheres that go, or how do I clip the water pump fins?

 

[zstroken]

Eneterprise Engine sells a kit that replaces a freeze plug in the block and dumps it back to the radiator above a certain PSI. I really think at 4000 RPM you should be fine, unless you have a tone of residue in the block or something. About 4200 or so I would think about clipping the waterpump or the pressure relief setup. ON the waterpump different people do different things. Some take 2 almost completely off. Some grind 3 of them down a little.

 

[wildmanben]

the cooling system was dirty from the last HG incident, suppose that had something to do with it? I cleaned it with soap 4 times, but it never seemed to get it all gone?

 

[zstroken]

I was referring to scale buildup restricting flow.

 

[Bandit1]

i would personally have the head magnafluxed hot pressure tested, there could be a crack in the head that only opens when hot hence letting the head flex slightly, this did happen to me along with a dip in the deck that caused my first HG.

 

[Hammer]

I agree with Josh. .

Have the head checked for any cracks first. When I went to EEP and they pulled my head it was cracked top to bottom inbetween #5-#6 and was leaking bad. The crack was wide enough it spread the factory exhaust manifold apart to where it was also cracked apart. Also drag the deck with a straight edge and make sure you have no runout(no more than. 004)or you will have problems sealing the head.



IF the O-Rings are stainless steel wire then you may not have to replace them. However with a dial caliper check the height before you reinstall to make sure they are out whatever height you had them at. If not most any HP automotive machine shop handle the stainless steel oring wire and it can be redone by yourself,just remember to take your time and use a plastic head hammer to tap the wire back into the groove. Also remember the end cut of the wire should be angled so when you get around the groove you can angle the other end to give it a full seal.



When you replace the head make sure you do it carefully as to not knock out any of the rings. I have seen guys in a hurry with the head and damaged the orings which lead to premature gasket failure. Once you have reseated the head and ran the torque sequence on the head,fill the cooling system and start the truck and let it idle until it gets to about the first gauge mark. Shut it off and retorque the head again then let it sit overnight to cool. Check the torque cold the next day and if they are tight then clean your cooling system out as I have said before with Cascade powder. You may have to flush it 4 times or more depending on hoiw bad it is. Once you get it to not show any oil in it fill it with new coolant and your off for the drive. I would not allow it to see any high pressures until you have driven it a couple thousand miles and retorqued it again. Most guys who use studs torque more than the factory specs and it may be something you may want to consider also. If you have any questions feel free to PM or email me and I'll make sure you get a way to reach me. Good Luck... ... Andy



BTW Wes...

It doesn't matter what they use for sealing purposes(ie-studs or bolts) as long as they are rated for the clamping force they are using. I would never reuse factory head bolts if I wasn't going to buy studs,new ones should be used to ensure proper torque to yield ratings. Sled Pullers old ride had many many hooks on it,seeing big boost and still is going WITHOUT the aid of headstuds,using headbolts to clamp it down. When Gene had that motor built headstuds were not yet even a thought,so it can be done,IF its done properly.

 

[rubberneck]

BTW Wes...

It doesn't matter what they use for sealing purposes(ie-studs or bolts) as long as they are rated for the clamping force they are using. I would never reuse factory head bolts if I wasn't going to buy studs,new ones should be used to ensure proper torque to yield ratings. Sled Pullers old ride had many many hooks on it,seeing big boost and still is going WITHOUT the aid of headstuds,using headbolts to clamp it down. When Gene had that motor built headstuds were not yet even a thought,so it can be done,IF its done properly.

I agree with this also. When my truck was oringed, studs were not available to us "small" people either. We did probably 4 or 5 trucks same way without too much issue. I'm sure the big dogs had them, but they weren't talking. I bought studs once they became available, but they have been collecting dust ever since. Why fix it if it isn't broke besides, with my luck as soon as I stud it it will blow.



I dont do the angle cut cause i just didn't seem to get the ends as I would like, but this is what i have done on several trucks and has worked. I cut the end of the stainless wire square with a dremel and cut off wheel NOT PLIERS. I line the end up with one of the bolt holes in the head and then tap it in the groove all the way around up to about the last 3/4 inch or so. I mark the exact spot it will over lap with a sharpie. I then lay a razor blade under the marked end so i dont nick the head, and i cut the end exactly the right length. i usually cut just a hair long and test the length before grinding of the last bit to ensure the ends of the wire rest tight against each other. When you do it correctly, it is almost hard to see the seam. Like i said i have done it this way about 1/2 dozen times with good results.

 

[BigBadDodge]

Some pics of the EEP fix and water pump clipping here:



CLICK HERE



Mine to protrude . 006 with 12mm ARP's and have lasted 4 years at approx 85psi





BBD

 

[wildmanben]

Didnt think of havent the head checked for cracks, will have to do that. What the price on that EEP pressure relief? Looks like a good thing.