Competition Blown freeze plug

[RyanB]

Andy, I really like the idea of the presure relief valve and I was actually thinking about this the other day while helping my plumber install out new heater. I see that valve you posted is adjustable from 10 to 70lbs... does anyone know what kind of presures the pump can put out and what kind of spikes one might see in PSI at full boost? Also, with out going and looking at my engine... are there any bungs already tapped in the head or block on the presure side that I could thread one right into saving the headache of going thru a frost plug?



Any help would be great!



Ryan

 

[AndyMan]

That would be the deal-breaker Waylan. Most everything I found was rated at 180*. not quite good enough for our application. I may call or send them an e-mail to see what they say.



I found one that met all the specs, but it was $140. EEP may not be making much profit on this deal. They might have the best solution. I'll keep digging though.



Ryan,

I think the EEP pressure relief valve pops off at 45psi. Evidently there is pretty good pressure build up there in the back of the block. As evidenced by all the people popping plugs at high rpm. As far as I know, there is no solution other than remove the freeze plug or blow it out for plumbing something like this up.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Jim,

Did you think that all the way through before you put it on?

I believe so, but if I missed something it would be easy to go back to it. I stopped working on it as I need to get other things done prior to deploying... . meaning it's not close to being finished... ... enlighten me!



My main objective was to keep from pulling the transmission again.



Jim

 

[Sled Puller]

I'm thinking if you plug the weakest link(rear soft plug), you will save taking the transmission out again, but won't the problem move to the next weakest link in the chain? The soft plugs in the side of your block?



You are band- aiding the symptom, instead of fixing the disease-high pressure.

Your engine is going to look funny with those plates bolted on both sides!!!!! :-laf

 

[Rhondasway]

Gene, you have a good point, but I'd personally rather have a reachable plug pop out than that one in the back... Seems like covering both bases would give a person that warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I'm thinking if you plug the weakest link(rear soft plug), you will save taking the transmission out again, but won't the problem move to the next weakest link in the chain? The soft plugs in the side of your block?



You are band- aiding the symptom, instead of fixing the disease-high pressure.

Your engine is going to look funny with those plates bolted on both sides!!!!! :-laf

Gene you and I think just alike, this exactally what I was thinking. I would rather not grind on the water pump but fix the plugs, even if I have to pull the other three and do the same fix except the plate.



Here is the odd part to me, why! My truck has caught more crap from me in the last 90,000 miles now with no failures like this..... maybe it was due.



Jim

 

[Sled Puller]

Repeated stress? Maybe your head is ready to split in half? Happy thoughts!

 

[walexa07]

I'm thinking if you plug the weakest link(rear soft plug), you will save taking the transmission out again, but won't the problem move to the next weakest link in the chain? The soft plugs in the side of your block?



You are band- aiding the symptom, instead of fixing the disease-high pressure.

Your engine is going to look funny with those plates bolted on both sides!!!!! :-laf

I don't view the pressure relief as a bandaid... ... ..... it allows the cummins water pump to flow per design for 98% of the time that my truck is a daily driver... ..... and still allows safe high rpm operation w/o overpressuring the expansion plugs. I believe the only time the overpressure is an issue is when the thermostat is in the closed position, and the water pump is pressurizing against it. When mine blew my truck had just come up to operating temp and I'm not positive the t-stat had opened yet. But it's not like once the t-stat opens that it stays open, so the solution isn't just to get completely up to temp. And there are no bolt holes to put plates over the plugs on the side of the engine, plus there are lots of freeze plugs in the head.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Repeated stress? Maybe your head is ready to split in half? Happy thoughts!

It might do that next month... . we'll see.



The above scenario might have something to play in my deal too as mine was just up to operating temp also so it may have been self induced.



Jim

 

[Rhondasway]

I'd been on the road for 3 hours when mine blew; operating temp was not an issue. Maybe cumulative between race stress over the last season, and plain ol' high pressure. Doing donuts at PDR I've blown water out, I think it was a matter of time.

 

[walexa07]

Rhondasway, I'm not sure of your exact situation that made your plug let go..... was it at high rpm? I wasn't trying to suggest that it will only happen on an engine not up to full temp, just that it is a little more likely, since unless the engine is under a good load, the t-stat still opens and closes competely, especially in cooler weather... ... . even with the engine up to temp. I was just trying to say that when the t-stat is closed is the only time you should be at risk... ..... otherwise the system pressure is going to be relieved at 15 or 16 psi by the radiator cap. Once the t-stat is open, the entire system has to be at near the same pressure, in theory anyway, and the radiator cap would allow protection by dumping in the overflow bottle. However, I do believe that this is something that can happen over time and could be hanging by a thread and may not take much to push it on out, which is what I believe you were stating.



Waylan

 

[Rhondasway]

I'm with ya Waylan. Mine was under WOT on the highway, revved pretty high. I'm just thankful it happened near a little town with super friendly people (the high school let me use their auto shop and even helped me), and not on my trip to Idaho a couple weeks earlier when I was breaking land speed records in the middle of nowhere!

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Andy,



A similar thing happened to me this past weekend... ... ... . I lost that rear freeze plug. The freeze plug is cummins part number 3922072, and is 58. 06mm in diameter. I ordered a new one from cummins and it came in today. I also heard about the attachment you mentioned, so I began looking for photos of the rear of 12v cummins. I found a photo for a marine 12v on ebay. There are 2 holes that look to be on the same centerline as the freeze plug. They are threaded... ... ... 12mm x 1. 75. Center distance between the 2 boltholes is 6. 5". DonM from DTR gave me the center distance as well as the bolt hole diameter and pitch. I had the local machine shop cut me a 3" x 7. 5" piece of flatbar... ... . he said it was machined on the side(s). He also drilled two . 5" holes at the center distance of 6. 5". This plate is 1/2" thick, to prevent any distortion from pressing in the new freeze plug. This afternoon, I plan to clean the back of my block with brillo pad, as well as the freeze plug hole, and put some yamabond on the freeze plug and pull it into the hole with this plate. I also plan to put some yamabond on the plate outside where the plug goes so it will also act to seal the hole in case the plug leaks. Leaving it in place, it should keep the plug from ever coming back out. Hope this info helps you out. I may have to grind a little on the bottom side of the plate as I don't know for sure if 3" is going to be too wide, and I will post here what I find.



What I would like to know from you is more info about the plate that the other guy told you about. Do you have a part number? Does it seal to the block with an oring or a gasket, how much is it? If it uses a gasket or o-ring, what are their part numbers? Thanks,



Waylan



One last thing... ... ... if I were you, I would just put a 1/2" npt plug in the plate and hook your pressure tester up somewhere else. The whole cooling system sees the same pressure and it will be easier to unhook your pressure tester if it is plugged in elsewhere. Just my opinion.



This was the info that I used for the plate. A copy over from the other thread mentioned above .



Jim

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

and not on my trip to Idaho a couple weeks earlier when I was breaking land speed records in the middle of nowhere!

LOL, that is so my story... . give it back :-laf GPS said 152 going downhill FUN!!!

 

[DRadzierez]

Jim,Ive lost several soft plugs always above 5000 rpm. I run no t-stat at all and still lose them. I have since went to an elect. water pump but before I did a "big name shop" had me put them in with red lock-tite and that did stop the problem until I went elec. But to anybody that horses around alot (Rhonda) you should keep a rubber oil cap bung(the kind that has a bolt in the center that swells it)in the truck---it will get you home. It has gotten me through a pull-off.

 

[Sled Puller]

I'm surpised you just didn't put a pop off in one of the soft plug holes, Dave, and spew your coolant down the track for the next guy. :{ (and that would be different from Dave going down the track every other time how?)



A nice guy could plumb it back into his overflow tank... ... That might be a decent fix.

 

[BIG BOB]

Is the bolt hole center for the plate different on a 3 gen? I know that Fred Swanson has repair a few of these and he told me that on the 3rd gen, the bolt hole center was 8".

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Now reading this I want to knock the other three plugs out and install new ones with Loctite then JB weld then in and buy a soft plug and put it in the truck with a junk pair of clothes



On the cyl head plugs deal, I don't think they would blow out because there isn't as much area for overall blow out pressure.



Jim

 

[DRadzierez]

I'm surpised you just didn't put a pop off in one of the soft plug holes, Dave, and spew your coolant down the track for the next guy. :{ (and that would be different from Dave going down the track every other time how?)



Gene you always thought that was head gaskets but in reality it was my plan to win----------Slick the track down. Besides Ive only ever blew 2 gaskets------I just kept running them while they were blown. Remember "come on Dave I need trucks". Im starting to beleive you wanted good video not trucks. LOL

 

[jwilliams3]

Dave,

You got part of the story right; The other part is that Sleddy wanted to blow off coolant so that he could grease the underside of the sled bottom to gain the advantage over the other trucks!! :-laf