BOMBing for towing. Where should I start?

[Sticks]

First off, hello to all, It’s great to finally be here. I have been periodically reading for the last year and have learned a lot. Two of the most important things are:

1. Half of you are evil bad influences to ones wallet. Is there no limit to how much you can do?

2. If you have a question about anything, you can get the answer here.



My wife and I have plans in the next two years to get a 30’ – 34’ fifth wheel to do our touring. I DO NOT want to be the poor shlup in the right lane chugging along like the little train that could at 20 mph over the mountain passes. I don’t want to go 150 mph, I just want to go 65 –70 mph up the side of a mountain pulling 20,000#’s GCVW. :--) ---Continues on the next entry. ---

 

[Sticks]

My funds are way limited at this point, so I will be assembling as I go along. The basics that I have picked up so far is 1. Air Intake (got it), 2. exhaust (4”), 3. gauges Easy enough), 4 computer box (here lies the big question), 5. exhaust brake to slow it all down no that you got it going ( turbo or down pipe). What I need are recommendations on the comp box, and exhaust brake. My main concern is WARRANTY. I don’t want to put anything on that I can’t take off/replace with stock that will show any obvious signs of the forbidden DC word, “Modification” if I have to go back to the “stealer” for any reason. I’m an avid do your own maintenance kind of guy, and never let anyone touch my babies, unless it calls for major surgery. I have read and heard at some shops of equipment that calls for wire splicing or tapping into a sealed connection. For the most part, the brake seems relatively harmless.

 

[Loren]

sticks,



You don't say what transmission you have in your truck. If you have a manual, the very first BOMB for towing should be an exhaust brake (EB). Coming down those hills with just your truck and trailer brakes will really heat them up. The EB is good insurance. I was convinced about the EB after the first trip with the fifth-wheel. That trip was in the Appalacians too, not the western mountains. The eastern mountains are just hills compared to the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada.



My EB is a USGear. It mounts in the exhaust pipe, well downstream from the engine. It's not as popular as many other models, but I've been happy with it. It is electrically controlled and electrically activated. You will need a big wire going down to the brake.



If you have an automatic, you may have to upgrade the torque converter in order to use an EB, but I am not the expert on that. I'm sure there are others who can tell you. You may want to post your question on the Towing and Hauling forum.



Basically, anything you do to BOMB your truck can affect your warranty. If you have an automatic transmission and install an EB, you can be sure that Dodge will not warranty the transmission nor torque converter. (Unless, perhaps, you can get one that is authorized by Dodge, and/or installed by the dealer. )



For additional power, I installed TST injectors, and later installed the Edge Comp box. Each modification increased the power noticably. If I run the Comp box on the top level, I really have to keep an eye on EGT's. I suspect that my current power level will ruin the clutch if I am not careful. I've been looking for an excuse to get a Southbend Clutch installed, but as long as the factory one is still good, I can't justify it. I got the Comp box because it wasn't that much more expensive than the EZ, and the installation was about the same amount of trouble. It does require tapping a wire at the fuel injection pump, though, so a sharp mechanic can tell the fuel system's been tampered with.



Regarding the air intake, be sure that you are still getting adequate filtration. I removed my expensive aftermarket air filter after hearing a presentation on filters at the second TDR Columbus, IN rally. Some of the aftermarket units will flow lots of air, but don't filter it so well. Ask if the company will warranty your engine if it fails due to improper filtration.



I recommend you read some of Robert Patton's comments on "I am my own warranty station. " His (and my) opinion is that if you want to modify your truck, that's fine. Just don't cheat Dodge by trying to get them to warranty something that they didn't build. It's one thing to avoid hassles from the dealer about modifications that clearly didn't cause the problem you want Dodge to fix (for example a power seat that is broken), but if you install TST injectors and an Edge Comp box, don't expect Dodge to pay if the clutch goes out. It really helps to have a good relationship with your dealer. Some of us are lucky in this regard, and some are not. My dealer, Batesville Dodge in Batesville, IN, is great, in sales, service and parts.



Happy BOMBing.



Loren

 

[Sticks]

Thanks and more info.

Thanks for the advice. My truck has the HO engine with the 6 speed transmission. Since I bought it used with 30,000 miles on it, I have no idea what may or may not have been done to it. It came with a gooseneck hitch rather firmly mounted (an obvious home job) to the frame. So it more than likely has been worked hard. The stealer evidently has faith in it because it came with an extended shop warranty, plus I purchased the additional warranty to carry the bumper to bumper for 7 years/ mileage (I don’t remember how many).



I have already installed the AFE Mega Cannon with the optional “Sock” for screening out the larger particles. Having driven a variety of vehicles in the mountains, I am a firm believer that the mass airflow filters is almost a necessity for 9000 ft altitude driving. The air is thin enough, why starve the engine with a restrictive filter. By reading lots of the threads, I have no wish to re-enact the battle over K&N and other brands. K&N is OK in my older gassers and motorcycle, with quality maintenance, but I feel more comfortable with the AFE in my Dodge. If there was room, I would eliminate the risk and double up on the stock air box. As it is, I am a little paranoid of an exposed filter, so I modified the heat shield around it to seal up firm with the hood when it is closed and ducted in the old snorkel from the fender. This at least helps keep the water from direct contact (which I have already experienced) from blowing between the hood and the fender, and should reduce the amount of dust and other particles. I’m sure it also tends to draw more cold air than engine heat.

 

[Sticks]

Little boxes and brakes

In regards to the magic mystery boxes, has anyone traced the wire that you have to tap into at the fuel pump back into the harness to find a less obvious point for invasion? Or is it just a little jumper wire that only goes a few inches from start to finish? Having never seen one, or instaled oneyet, I have no idea. I thought that there were boxes that did not require wire tapping, just plug and play. So long as the little things like over boost codes and such do not end up in the OEM computer when they plug in to see how I have bee driving.



I am an honest individual, and would not expect to have a dealer replace something at their expense that I caused. That is part of the reason why the dealer prices get higher and pass the buck on to every one else that comes in. Like I said earlier, I just want the truck to keep up with the flow of traffic on the mountains while towing. I have my Honda Valkyrie for speed and agility. Besides, with the wife being the main bread winner around here, she will not tolerate having the truck sponging up more money than it already is, let alone out perform her Mustang. :-{}



I have read up on the Exhaust brakes, and am compelled to go with the US Gear version that is down wind of the turbo. The have some valid points of weight and stress on the turbo housing and mounting points. That and it seems a lot easier to install at home.



Any comments from those that have towed and or live in Colorado would be appreciated. I would like to get together with someone local (Denver) that has unleashed their Dodge to see and feel just what it is that I am getting into, and is willing to put up with my questions for a while. Oo.

 

[rfcom]

Setup for towing

Hey sticks, I think we have parallel lives. I'm getting my rig set up for towing too, but for a smaller TT, so I can still carry my quad with me. Also, your Valk would beat my Venture MM and your wifes Mustang would beat my wife's Sebring. Geez - now I'm all depressed. Anyway, your BOMBing plans sound right to me and my opinion is based on reading posts on this forum for the last several months.

As for boxes, some have the option of tapping the pump wire but do so at your own risk. See here for why I say that. They also plug into the MAP connector and modify the signal the ECM sees so that it doesn't set overboost codes.

I like the features of the BD exhaust brake but they use a microswitch on the go pedal, instead of using the ECM. I don't see the need for the e-brake to come on between shifts. To eliminate any possible warranty concerns, I'll likely go with the Jacobs brake. Good luck.



Jim

 

[Sticks]

My thoughts on the e-brake run along the same lines. I see no reason to have it active while shifting. I was pondering a second switch in the loop. I currently have a circa 1970’s HURST T-shifter knob in lieu of the OEM round shifter. Messes with the Valet guys, as they have a hell of a time finding reverse. Hurst has a new item (at least new to me) that has a momentary button switch on the thumb side of the T-shifter.







I was thinking of wiring that as a “Momentary on” so I could just squeeze and hold it on as long as I needed the e-brake – like in traffic, or going down hill w/o a load. Of course have the “Constant on” in the dash somewhere as directed. Sometimes just coasting with no brake is fine.



As for your bike, anything can be fixed to run better. My Valk hit Denver with 87 hp at the wheel. I re-jetted all 6 carbs, K&N filter, and replaced the mufflers with, get this, 4” diesel stacks. This was long before I even pondered the truck, might have been a sign. Anyhow, I now have 98hp at the wheel and she has no problem running down jonny-rocket both on the flats and in the canyons. :-laf Thus the speed and agility has been satisfied. The ol-ladys mustang is a ’94 3. 8 convertible. So it won’t take much for the truck to out run her.

 

[rfcom]

E-brake

The nice thing about using the ECM signal is the 3 second delay before activation. This way, no need for a momentary switch. However, the stick mounted switch is the way to go for ease of operation.



I did the K&N and rejet and replaced my muffs too, but used some off a Harley Classic. Sounds way cool even if they don't make it go any faster.



Jim

 

[RCone]

I like PacBrake. Have had two of them on two different CTD's, both automatics believe it or not. And the price is right as well as the performance.



With regard to HP and Torque. I would get an Edge Comp and leave the wire off for awhile to protect warranty. What I like about the Comp verses the EZ is that you can turn it off and on from the cab and you will only have to buy a fueling/timing box once. When I tow (8500# dry 5ver) I turn the comp off and run just on my injectors. If I need a little more when towing, I just crank it to 1x3 (same as EZ in most responsive setting). What is neat tho, you can always tell if the Comp is working cause you can turn it off and on, and when you are ready, tap the wire. DD2's and Edge works really great for towing as long as you have gauges, air and exhaust mods and probably a clutch down the road. Don't forget the Prodigy brake controller!



Hope this helps,



Roger

 

[RCone]

Whoops, forgot something. You will need to do something about your Boost pressure to help control EGT's. Edge provides either with Comp or EZ an elbow restrictor (for manual transmissions only, which you have) to increase boost from stock of about 18-19PSI to roughly 26-28. If you had to go to dealer for catastrophic failure, you could remove elbow and box and if you kept you stock injector cores, could even swap those back. It then would be hard for dealer to prove mods had been done. Yes, they could determine extra fueling and overboost codes if they had/have the software to do it but not likely they would do so. I have the BlueChip cover, pierces wire under the VP44 cover so not as obvious, but some dealers will look there also. But, to sum it all up, our host Robert Patton says it best. You wanna play, be prepared to pay. "I am my own warranty station. "



Roger

 

[Sticks]

Just when I think that I have the package that I need/want, I get a little more info that sends me right back to the drawing board. I am going to be at my local Wrench Day in March. I should probably wait until then for these questions, because the answer will usually bring another question. I’m new at this, and I want to get fully informed as quickly as possible on anything I am interested in. Genetic trait, thank my mom for that one.



Will the BOSCH RV 275 injectors void the warranty (presuming the stealer digs that deep in the event of total system failure)? My brain is taking me in the direction that it is a CD product, that they put on CTD engines, I should be OK.



With the 275s, EZ comp – the fuel wire, 86 the OEM muffler, and AFE intake, will the stock turbo be able to handle the mods’ (given that I get the elbow from EZ)? Or do I now need to look at a bigger Turbo – which seems to me that, “pop”, there went my warranty. I understand the TDR mantra, and as I stated earlier, If I broke it, or blatantly shortened it’s life, I pay for it.



I am about to rant. If you don’t want to hear the whining of an anti corporate, do it at home, manual thumper, please skip to the next post.



But if it has an inherent problem that it either will live forever no matter what you throw at it, or die the first time you try to squeeze a little more from it (VP44), I shouldn’t have to replace it. I don’t want to loose everything just because the stealer saw a reason to void a warranty because there was a clean spot on the fender where an after market fueling box is usually mounted.



Please excuse me, I tend to over exaggerate on dealer service issues. The straw broke when a service writer here in Denver told me, after taking the time to listen to my questions about mod’s to my 2500, “Basically if you put anything other than OEM on the drive train components of your truck, from the air box to the exhaust tip, you voided your warranty. DC has drawn a very solid line on mods, and we now look very hard at the truck anytime you bring it in for engine service. ” I personally think that this is BS. Prove beyond a doubt that my aftermarket intake system caused the fuel pump to implode before you shaft me for $1800. 00. This is why I want to keep everything that I add on, removable in a short period of time in case I need to do an unscheduled stop at the stealer. I know walking that fine line is hard, and borders on dishonest, but until I find a dealer that has a honest service writer, and a honest QUALIFIED CTD tech that I can trust, that will say, “Your intake did not kill the pump, we will take care of it, don’t worry, come and pick up your baby tomorrow. Do you need a ride home?” I am going to stand very defiantly on that line.



End of rant.

 

[Mtngoat]

Great rant

Most likely, a lot of people feel the same way...

 

[RCone]

If you change injectors, 275's or up, the dealer might be able to tell. People tell you the DD1's (stealth) can have the same part # as stock. A well informed dealer could still tell the difference if they wanted to. ETH's respond better to injectors than ETC's. That being said, I guess if I really didn't want to worry about my warranty, I would only change exhaust and tip (tip doesn't make HP but looks nice), intake (drop in AF like K&N or AFE and proper documented maintenance. Will not gain you any HP or TQ but will reduce EGT's slightly. I would defy DC to void your warranty based on that. Notice that I left off Exhaust Brake. The addition of that would definitely void warranty on the drivetrain on an auto and probably on a manual transmission as well. So. . it depends, do you want performance and more safety when towing or since our CTD's are pretty good stock for towing applications do you wish to protect warranty. Your decision, I've made mine.



Roger

 

[Josparkz]

Originally posted by sticks

Will the BOSCH RV 275 injectors void the warranty (presuming the stealer digs that deep in the event of total system failure)? My brain is taking me in the direction that it is a CD product, that they put on CTD engines, I should be OK.



I certainly can not verify this , , and it may very well be one of those old injector rebuilder's tales. But I have been told that the only external difference (at least in the 12V engines) is a number that is stenciled on the injector bodies. I have been told that the ink that these numbers is put on with does not last very long after the injectors are run.

 

[JBrookshire]

grabber??

What does the tst grabber do??? Doesent that elemenat tapping in the injector wire???Justin

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by RCone

Notice that I left off Exhaust Brake. The addition of that would definitely void warranty on the drivetrain on an auto and probably on a manual transmission as well.

If you want an exhaust brake without any warranty hassles, go with the Jacobs brake. It's a Mopar and Cummins approved accessory. Mine was dealer installed prior to delivery and, not only does it not void the drivetrain warranty, it's covered by the Dodge bumper-to-bumper warranty.



You can see my mods in my signature - we're running 21,180 GCW (21,500 GCWR) pulling a 36' triple slide 5ver with more BHP & torque and lower EGT's than stock. Down the road I may go with DD2 injectors, but I'll have to upgrade to a South Bend Con O-FE before I do. The stock clutch is holding fine now, but it won't with the injectors.



Rusty

 

[Sticks]

If you want an exhaust brake without any warranty hassles, go with the Jacobs brake. It's a Mopar and Cummins approved accessory. Mine was dealer installed prior to delivery and, not only does it not void the drivetrain warranty, it's covered by the Dodge bumper-to-bumper warranty.

RustyJC



The fact that Dodge will allow a particular e-brake on the vehicles, proves that they are OK for this application no matter what brand you use, so long as they meet the same specs that the Jacob e-brake have. I would have to do some research, but I don't see that the various brands could be that different... of course then I think of oil filters Not Mopar? Good bye warranty because the filter you have doesn't have the check valve in it.

:--)



I am not going to give DC $1200 or more for a unit that the market is holding between $400 to $800, especially when they advise that you need one when towing. That Will be an interesting argument if the situation arises at the stealership.



Thank you for the other information on the towing applications that you use. I have decided that I am going to at least get the 275 injectors, as well as low end box. I am still waffling on the exhaust, I may start by popping out my muffler and replacing it with a 4 or 5" section, or stay that size to the tip.



$$$$$ I need to find a tree! That or a local charity organization that hates to see a CTD stock.



Sticks

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by sticks

The fact that Dodge will allow a particular e-brake on the vehicles, proves that they are OK for this application no matter what brand you use, so long as they meet the same specs that the Jacob e-brake have.

Good luck. The onus of proving that it "meets the same specs that the Jacob(s) e-brake has" is on you, not on DC.

I am not going to give DC $1200 or more for a unit that the market is holding between $400 to $800, especially when they advise that you need one when towing. That Will be an interesting argument if the situation arises at the stealership.

I wouldn't either. Mine was a little over $600 installed by the dealer. It was negotiated as part of the purchase when I ordered the truck.

Thank you for the other information on the towing applications that you use. I have decided that I am going to at least get the 275 injectors, as well as low end box.

If you're going to tow as heavy as I do, I'll give you the TDR member's name here in the Houston area who toasted his stock ETH/DEE clutch with 275's and an EZ. OK, not everyone does immediately, but be prepared!

I am still waffling on the exhaust, I may start by popping out my muffler and replacing it with a 4 or 5" section, or stay that size to the tip.

I primarily went with the exhaust to lower EGTs when towing. Stock, I saw 1300 degF. With the EZ and exhaust (installed the same weekend), that dropped to 1100 degF. Pulling the muffler will certainly help, but how much pipe less than 4"OD will you have left in the system?



The only purpose of my previous post was to advise what I have chosen to do and how it has worked out. It's your money and your truck - you certainly have every right to do something different if you wish.



Rusty

 

[Sticks]

I do appreciate the advice. I gather all the information that I can then make a decision based on the information.



I know that the truck was worked hard prior to my getting it. I have no idea if the clutch is stock, OEM replacement, or aftermarket. Everything else appears to be original.



As far as the exhaust goes, I would be stock from the down pipe to the resonator. I would replace the muffler with the 4"

or 5" section then either continue with that size to the tip, or reduce it down to the 3" (or 3 1/2, whatever the OEM size is) to keep the stock tip. the only experience with exhaust that I have is with motorcycles, and every time I have gotten lucky and gained 5 - 15 hp at the wheel, rather than the common result of losing hp. I know CTD's are not affected or rather there are no hp/torque gains by doing this, I am just looking for unrestricted flow. I would replace the resonator as well, but I don't want to encounter the "drone" that I have read about.



In short, I know that by trying to do everything the miserly way, there is going to be lots of trial and error. First things first, I need gages, so I can tell how my trials are going. I have at least two years before I make the Fifth Wheel trailer purchase, and I hope to get at least a 20' gooseneck flatbed before then so I can do the towing trials.



Now if I would just stop reading the posts on things that I have not considered, my list would stay small. Now I need to start thinking about traction bars for the rear. Darn, there went another $500. I go to my property in the mountains year round, and have already done the wheel hop thing probably a few too many times. Drive train looks OK, no leaks or looseness. The rear axle and springs look a little off, but I would have to know what they are supposed to look like in proper fashion.



Sticks

 

[wcjp]

I was talking with a guy at a local event a week ago. He mentioned his 24V drives better with increased fuel mileage(. 5mpg) with the DD2's over the 275's.