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boost "module" questions
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Boost modules don't do anything for you if you have not installed some kind of upgrade which improves fueling. Boost modules were first brought upon the scene by Diesel Dynamics(as far a I know) to be an accompanyment to the Stage II and Stage III injectors. With a boost module and elbow you will enhance the operation of the injectors in that you will see more boost from the elbow and the module will keep the ecm from seeing out of spec boost levels for which it would compensate by defueling the pump.
HVAC,
Hey old buddy, are you sure about that?
If you put the elbow in with a boost module I would think some gains might be made. The elbow would increase boost by tricking the waste gate and the module would keep the ecm from cutting back on fuel at 20# or so. An increase in fuel and an increase in air could give some gains. Maybe not enough to justify $300 but then I know a guy with this set up and stage ones that is very happy.
It would be interesting for some one buying the injectors and module to install the module and elbow first and doing a test just for curiosity sake?
What a ya think?
Ron
Hey old buddy, are you sure about that?
If you put the elbow in with a boost module I would think some gains might be made. The elbow would increase boost by tricking the waste gate and the module would keep the ecm from cutting back on fuel at 20# or so. An increase in fuel and an increase in air could give some gains. Maybe not enough to justify $300 but then I know a guy with this set up and stage ones that is very happy.
It would be interesting for some one buying the injectors and module to install the module and elbow first and doing a test just for curiosity sake?
What a ya think?
Ron
Ron -
I guess the question then would be in the "stock" form can your engine make more boost?? In its stock form there is only so much boost it will produce. When I get my gauges in and my PowerEdge in, I will turn off the PE and attempt to play with the boost. Also have to come up with a way to modify my wastegate since I have the "hardline".
Maybe I can talk to Douglas Hatfield and we can turn off his PE and play with his truck and see what happens boost wise.
I believe with the PE "off" the boost module will still work as long as the PE itself is connect to the 12v powersource.
I guess the question then would be in the "stock" form can your engine make more boost?? In its stock form there is only so much boost it will produce. When I get my gauges in and my PowerEdge in, I will turn off the PE and attempt to play with the boost. Also have to come up with a way to modify my wastegate since I have the "hardline".
Maybe I can talk to Douglas Hatfield and we can turn off his PE and play with his truck and see what happens boost wise.
I believe with the PE "off" the boost module will still work as long as the PE itself is connect to the 12v powersource.
Help to anyone who know the answers! I've got DD1's in an otherwise stock 5speed '01. Like the power but more smoke than I bargained for when below boost RPM- What will the module do in this situation? Does it start boosting earlier? Will it help EGT at towing extremes? I sometimes tow grossing 19k+, yes I've got gages.
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[This message has been edited by Rockcrawler (edited 06-28-2000). ]
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[This message has been edited by Rockcrawler (edited 06-28-2000). ]
I agree with Ron, I think a boost module would give a stock ETH a decent HP gain!! My truck rises rapidly to 20# and stops there like it hit a brick wall! You can really feel it cut back fuel. I bet that boost will threaten 30psi on my truck with a module & elbow! For anyone considering the injector route over a power box for HP enhancement could start with a boost module only on the ETH--I think it would give reasonable bang for the buck. Then if you don't think that's enough, then you're already set up to throw in the injectors 
#ad
I think TST was first to have a boost module, integrated in the second PowerMax (? not sure).
Vaughn
#adI think TST was first to have a boost module, integrated in the second PowerMax (? not sure).
Vaughn
I saw a dyno graph on Scott's Great White page. It showed his then stock ETH with an elbow installed. It lost power compared to stock. I don't think it had a module though.
I would have thought that an elbow alone would work on the ETH. Since I don't have one, does the ECM defuel at 20? I thought it didn't start cutting back until 26?
By the way, Scott that is a nice site and the truck looks awesome!
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99'2500 SLT QC LB 4x4
white/agate, 5spd, trailer, camper, 3. 55LSD, 241HD, cab lights, 3500 tailgate lights, mopar mud flaps, luverne SS nerfs, diamond plate rails, Weatherguard box, Banks 4inch, Isspro Boost/EGT gauges(pre), 265 BFG KO's, ... more to come
I would have thought that an elbow alone would work on the ETH. Since I don't have one, does the ECM defuel at 20? I thought it didn't start cutting back until 26?
By the way, Scott that is a nice site and the truck looks awesome!
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99'2500 SLT QC LB 4x4
white/agate, 5spd, trailer, camper, 3. 55LSD, 241HD, cab lights, 3500 tailgate lights, mopar mud flaps, luverne SS nerfs, diamond plate rails, Weatherguard box, Banks 4inch, Isspro Boost/EGT gauges(pre), 265 BFG KO's, ... more to come
Just curious, this forum does go round and round with all of us looking for exactly what these different components do. Then what do they do if we add yet another component into the equation. From what I can figure out with either a set of 275hp injectors or say a VA box you get a good kick in the pants with no adverse EGT's, weather your towing or hot rodding. But at a certain point of adding modules or elbows or big injectors or magical black boxes EGT's become a factor unless you start changing engine components such as turbine housings and such. Maybe one day we will have a chart to look at and be able to see what works with what and what doesn't. Regards from one who just doesn't know!!!!!
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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!PROPER VALVEMENT
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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!PROPER VALVEMENT
dmurdock
I just installed a Power Edge on my stock truck. The Power Edge has boost and fuel enhancements at 3 different levels.
#ad
It probably cost more than a boost module alone but the PE is a huge difference over stock. The nice thing about the PE is you can select the level of power you want. I recommend it very highly as a first BOMB. I'll have to say that I will only run in the 3rd level on a limited bases and will not tow in level 3 until I get gauges. The Power Edge is an amazing product.
#ad
GET IT!! You will not regret it!#ad
#ad
Talk to HVAC, he got a great price on it.
Pete
Don't know if I agree with you about the VA. First it cost more than an Power Edge, Second to my understanding it only give moderate performance increase because it only modifies the timing of the pump. Third is that there is no power level adjustments.
I may be wrong, what do our fellow TDR brothers think?
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99 Quad Cab, White, SLT, 4x4, 5-sp, 3:54's, LSD, Loaded except cab lights and leather, Raven cap (cab high), Rhino liner, Stainless Nerf Bars, Stainless Rocker Panels, Tow package, Pro-flap mud flaps (Stainless Cummins "C" coming to add to rear flaps), Power Edge (my first BOMB), Valentine One, Amsoil throughout, CB Radio.
Things to come;
Hadley Bully Air Horns, 285/75R16 Cooper A/T's, SPA Pyro and Boost gauge, 4" exhaust system, DDIII's, Psychotty Air Filter.
NRA Life Member! (Need to protect our rights and FREEDOM!!)
[This message has been edited by BIG BOB (edited 06-28-2000). ]
I just installed a Power Edge on my stock truck. The Power Edge has boost and fuel enhancements at 3 different levels.
#adIt probably cost more than a boost module alone but the PE is a huge difference over stock. The nice thing about the PE is you can select the level of power you want. I recommend it very highly as a first BOMB. I'll have to say that I will only run in the 3rd level on a limited bases and will not tow in level 3 until I get gauges. The Power Edge is an amazing product.
#adGET IT!! You will not regret it!
#ad#adTalk to HVAC, he got a great price on it.
Pete
Don't know if I agree with you about the VA. First it cost more than an Power Edge, Second to my understanding it only give moderate performance increase because it only modifies the timing of the pump. Third is that there is no power level adjustments.
I may be wrong, what do our fellow TDR brothers think?
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99 Quad Cab, White, SLT, 4x4, 5-sp, 3:54's, LSD, Loaded except cab lights and leather, Raven cap (cab high), Rhino liner, Stainless Nerf Bars, Stainless Rocker Panels, Tow package, Pro-flap mud flaps (Stainless Cummins "C" coming to add to rear flaps), Power Edge (my first BOMB), Valentine One, Amsoil throughout, CB Radio.
Things to come;
Hadley Bully Air Horns, 285/75R16 Cooper A/T's, SPA Pyro and Boost gauge, 4" exhaust system, DDIII's, Psychotty Air Filter.
NRA Life Member! (Need to protect our rights and FREEDOM!!)
[This message has been edited by BIG BOB (edited 06-28-2000). ]
Kat,
If the stocker couldn't put out more boost they wouldn't put a waste gate on it. You guys with new trucks have to figure a way to defeat the wastegate settings. I hear some guys just pinch off the hose, if thats possible? If you've got gauges this shouldn't be a problem.
Rockcrawler,
Porky had to trade in his DDIII's 'cause his wife couldn't drive it without smoking too much for her. He went to the DDI's and kept the module and elbow and is happier than he thought possible without the big injectors.
Vaughn,
Keeping the engine from defueling at a certain amount of boost will do no good if the boost is kept in check by the wategate.
I chose the injector route 'cause Im afraid of loosing the injector pump by letting a box fool with it's cycle. Also I hear too much EGT concerns with ALL the boxes you guys talk about including the latest wonder everyone is jumping on. Poer towing is my main concern and I have NO TOWING EGT problems with my set up, even before adding 4" exhaust. I pull a gvw of over 18k as fast as I want to.
Good Luck All,
Ron
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'99 Quad long bed, 4x4, 5 speed, 3. 55 limslip, DD stage IIs/boost module and elbow, US Gear D-brake, 4" exhaust, gauges, stock filter, air bags and a bunch of other stuff
If the stocker couldn't put out more boost they wouldn't put a waste gate on it. You guys with new trucks have to figure a way to defeat the wastegate settings. I hear some guys just pinch off the hose, if thats possible? If you've got gauges this shouldn't be a problem.
Rockcrawler,
Porky had to trade in his DDIII's 'cause his wife couldn't drive it without smoking too much for her. He went to the DDI's and kept the module and elbow and is happier than he thought possible without the big injectors.
Vaughn,
Keeping the engine from defueling at a certain amount of boost will do no good if the boost is kept in check by the wategate.
I chose the injector route 'cause Im afraid of loosing the injector pump by letting a box fool with it's cycle. Also I hear too much EGT concerns with ALL the boxes you guys talk about including the latest wonder everyone is jumping on. Poer towing is my main concern and I have NO TOWING EGT problems with my set up, even before adding 4" exhaust. I pull a gvw of over 18k as fast as I want to.
Good Luck All,
Ron
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'99 Quad long bed, 4x4, 5 speed, 3. 55 limslip, DD stage IIs/boost module and elbow, US Gear D-brake, 4" exhaust, gauges, stock filter, air bags and a bunch of other stuff
<font color=blue>Ron -
I agree with what your saying, what I was trying to say in my last post is, at what level does the "boost level" become not the optimal level with "stock" injectors. If you add more boost, your adding more air... but not anymore fuel? On a stock truck. Tha was my line of thinking.
There is such a thing as too much boost, but if you got the fuel to go along with it... ...
Someone correct me if I am wrong...
[This message has been edited by KatDiesel (edited 06-29-2000). ]
I agree with what your saying, what I was trying to say in my last post is, at what level does the "boost level" become not the optimal level with "stock" injectors. If you add more boost, your adding more air... but not anymore fuel? On a stock truck. Tha was my line of thinking.
There is such a thing as too much boost, but if you got the fuel to go along with it... ...
Someone correct me if I am wrong...
[This message has been edited by KatDiesel (edited 06-29-2000). ]
Big Bob, no disagreement on my part, but the VA box is one without the temptation of turning up and getting in trouble with say on a long pull, meaning too high EGT's. The VA gives you a little more power without the worry of high EGT. I'm reading your post as saying that you can raise your EGT with the PE in the wrong setting to a dangerous level if your not careful like a hard pull loaded down. The PE does give you the most options as far as tunabilty goes.
Actually what I was really wondering was can you combine the VA and 275hp injectors and still not have to worry about EGT's on a long heavy pull?? Regards Pete
Actually what I was really wondering was can you combine the VA and 275hp injectors and still not have to worry about EGT's on a long heavy pull?? Regards Pete
Kat,
Yes you are right on but,
If you get more boost and the ecm is not allowed to cut back on the fueling some gains might be made. I believe boost is a result of the hot gasses exiting the exhaust manifold. The more gasses (fuel burned)the more boost.
I'm not saying a boost module and wastegate elbow is a smart thing to do on a stock truck, but it would be interesting to know just what the results would be.
I think most guys do what I did, install the injectors, get antsy and run out and give it a test just to make sure it runs and you didn't screw up the installation. With the stage II's the results wern't too impressive. After hooking up the module and elbow, wow! Happy campers! I would like to see someone hook up the module and elbow first, just to see what happens?
Next time I stop at Diesel Dynamics I'll ask Lawrence about this. I would imagine the gains to be minimal or he would recommend it.
But then again, I know Porky is quite happy with his set up, stage I's, module and elbow.
Ron
Yes you are right on but,
If you get more boost and the ecm is not allowed to cut back on the fueling some gains might be made. I believe boost is a result of the hot gasses exiting the exhaust manifold. The more gasses (fuel burned)the more boost.
I'm not saying a boost module and wastegate elbow is a smart thing to do on a stock truck, but it would be interesting to know just what the results would be.
I think most guys do what I did, install the injectors, get antsy and run out and give it a test just to make sure it runs and you didn't screw up the installation. With the stage II's the results wern't too impressive. After hooking up the module and elbow, wow! Happy campers! I would like to see someone hook up the module and elbow first, just to see what happens?
Next time I stop at Diesel Dynamics I'll ask Lawrence about this. I would imagine the gains to be minimal or he would recommend it.
But then again, I know Porky is quite happy with his set up, stage I's, module and elbow.
Ron
Ron- In effect, I was running that set-up for a while and many are today. The PMAX2 I tried was often switched off, but the elbow and module still work. There was nothing there SOP but I could build 24-26 lbs of boost on long grades towing heavy. I spoke with Mark (TST)about this and he said the their would be no gain, true the boost was increased but it would be offset by something else- sorry I don't recall the details. He said you may be able to show a 3HP gain or so but he did not consider it significant enough to acknowledge. I'm sure he could clear it up in more detail.
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01 2500 4x4,SB, QC, black sport, 5 speed, BFG All Terrains, leather, 3. 54, anti-spin, camper package, RBW 15k 5er hitch, tow package, tonneau.
Bombed- gages and DD1's, former PMAX2
Toys- 84 coilsprung CJ-7 with 5. 2 magnum auto transmission, Go2Guy Engineering transfer case clocking adapter (Dana 300) and all the big dog jeep goodies.
Tige 2100i inboard ski boat w/ tower
30'Tahoe 5er with slide, soon to be modded with a rear deck and extra axle to haul the jeep!
------------------
01 2500 4x4,SB, QC, black sport, 5 speed, BFG All Terrains, leather, 3. 54, anti-spin, camper package, RBW 15k 5er hitch, tow package, tonneau.
Bombed- gages and DD1's, former PMAX2
Toys- 84 coilsprung CJ-7 with 5. 2 magnum auto transmission, Go2Guy Engineering transfer case clocking adapter (Dana 300) and all the big dog jeep goodies.
Tige 2100i inboard ski boat w/ tower
30'Tahoe 5er with slide, soon to be modded with a rear deck and extra axle to haul the jeep!
I believe the boost module portion of the PE still works when the unit is turned off. On my truck there appears to be no difference between running stock and running with the PE turned off.
There are a lot of ways I can burn up my truck engine, when it's running stock, if I'm irresponsible. To me, the responsible thing to do whem BOMBing is to install and use guages.
After using the PE for over 2 months now, I can confortably say a few things. First, when towing I can run in power level 1 and never have worry about or look at temps. Second, when running empty in power level 3, I never have to look at the guages and worry about harming the engine - I'll have had a speeding ticket long before that time. Lastly, if I'm worried about any warranty problems I can have all traces of the non propane unit removed from my truck in just a matter of minutes.
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'01 4x4 SWB Quad Cab
ETH/DEE
trailer tow group
camper special group
354 posi
PowerEdge module w/propane
pilar mounted combo pyro & boost guage
various appearance goodies
[This message has been edited by Bart Timothy (edited 06-29-2000). ]
There are a lot of ways I can burn up my truck engine, when it's running stock, if I'm irresponsible. To me, the responsible thing to do whem BOMBing is to install and use guages.
After using the PE for over 2 months now, I can confortably say a few things. First, when towing I can run in power level 1 and never have worry about or look at temps. Second, when running empty in power level 3, I never have to look at the guages and worry about harming the engine - I'll have had a speeding ticket long before that time. Lastly, if I'm worried about any warranty problems I can have all traces of the non propane unit removed from my truck in just a matter of minutes.
------------------
'01 4x4 SWB Quad Cab
ETH/DEE
trailer tow group
camper special group
354 posi
PowerEdge module w/propane
pilar mounted combo pyro & boost guage
various appearance goodies
[This message has been edited by Bart Timothy (edited 06-29-2000). ]
Ron -
Lets just say we are both right#ad
I think it might help a lil with EGT but I don't think a module and elbow on a stock truck will provide any HP improvement, you do that by adding fuel. (Injectors or some box).
But I will try and do some testing this weekend on an ETH truck if I can get together with him.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just more or less trying to debate a lil for fun... .#ad
I would say we are both right to an extent.
Lets just say we are both right
#adI think it might help a lil with EGT but I don't think a module and elbow on a stock truck will provide any HP improvement, you do that by adding fuel. (Injectors or some box).
But I will try and do some testing this weekend on an ETH truck if I can get together with him.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just more or less trying to debate a lil for fun... .
#adI would say we are both right to an extent.
Good discussion here, but I'm thinking the ETH is a little different beast than the ETC and a module & elbow will give it a nice boot in the pants #ad
. I'm hoping the 10hp per psi of boost rule will apply here
#ad
Keep us posted, Kat, because it will be awhile before I get around to trying this setup. I want to upgrade fuel lines first since lift pump pressures get pretty low at WOT.
#ad. I'm hoping the 10hp per psi of boost rule will apply here
#adKeep us posted, Kat, because it will be awhile before I get around to trying this setup. I want to upgrade fuel lines first since lift pump pressures get pretty low at WOT.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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FREE!
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
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