Boost Module

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After all the Injector and HP Box discussion, I'm interested in learning more about boost modules.

HVAC, are the modules you and Evan have electronic devices? Or something that goes in place of the air line that runs from the turbo outlet (air side) to the wastegate diaphram?

I am considering a way to do something similar with minimal $$. It would be easy enough to make up another hose to the wastegate with a restriction and a bleed to atmosphere to raise boost. Or, maybe disconnect the hose and plug the end (is that what Evan did a while back)?? But to do it properly, the ECM has to be tricked into thinking there is less boost pressure than there actually is so it won't cut back fuel at high boost. With this in mind I went out this AM to locate the manifold pressure sensor but couldn't find one! There is a senser near Cyl #5 which may be it. It would need to be rigged following the same method for the wastegate actuator, but if it's a large plug screwed directly into the manifold, then it wouldn't be very practical to attempt this. But to save $300, it's worth a look.

Let me know if I'm on the right track here, I don't understand this system 100%.

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Vaughn MacKenzie

1998 3/4T Quad Cab 4x4, 24-valve, 5-speed w/open 3. 54, White over Driftwood, Fog Lamps, Air Dam, Agate leather with most options.
245/75/16 Kelley Safari MSRs on M/T Classics, DeeZee running boards, diamond tread bedrail & tailgate protector.
Delvac 1 5W40 Synthetic Oil.
52,975 miles (12/11/99) 16-17 City & 18-20 Highway MPG

 

[Archive]

HVAC,
I too am a little confused about the boost module. I have the TST PowerMax. Would the boost module be necessary? OR is it a way to gain that ever sought after goal, more HP and Torque if I added it?
Thanks for all your help. We all appreciate you being the quina pig. (we all should chip in a few bucks!!! He he he)
Anyway, was wandering if the module would help me or not.
Terry Tucker As always, BOMBING away.
I'd rather be BOMBED than KISSED

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Terry Tucker, Terre Haute, Indiana, 4 wheel antilock brakes, 99 QC,LB,4X4,5SP,3. 54 LSD,Scott CONE SHAPED K&N, TED JANNETTY 4 IN EXHAUST, PYRO AND BOOST GUAGES, RV INJECTORS, TST PowerMax, Prime-Loc fuel filter system, Rancho 9000 shocks



[This message has been edited by TerryTT (edited 12-12-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

Vaughn, you are headin' the right direction, Evan the Bombster has disconnected the wastegate. This will allow you to make more boost, but the ecm will decrease fuel delivery to the engine as you reach 20. 5 lbs. This did not translate to power for me.
So the idea is to make more boost but not tip off the ecm that we're having fun. The answer is to plug in the DD boost module. This is used in conjunction with the brass elbow which will feed a delayed signal to the wastegate. CCollar and I modified his big 4x4 today with just such modifications. Then he made me buy him lunch, hey! what's up with that! Well anyway, CCollar noticed an improvement of boost pressure in the area of 8 lbs. His truck felt good to me as he had a good midrange response. I am expecting some more info from him after he has an opportunity to guage his performance against previous experience.

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

[Archive]

Yes, the module Evan has and the one we installed on CCollar's truck, are electronic devices that control the signal from the boost sensor. If you look on the drivers side behind the fuel filter, you should find a boost source for the ecm. The module wiring will install in series with the oem harness. In addition, the elbow will modify the wastegate response.

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3/4 ton, 5 sp, lsd, 2wd, qcab, guages, Scotty sys. Rhino liner, Blue Box hp enhancement

 

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Thanks HVAC. Sounds like sensor I spotted is the correct one.

For the heck of it, I may disconnect the wastegate hose and see what happens. Maybe since I don't tow much I won't trip the ECM, but if I do, I'll just reconnect the hose and the ECM should reset after a few startup cycles.

Evan, if you're reading here, did you ever trip the ECM when running with the wastegate hose disconnected?

Thanks, Vaughn

 

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Hey Vaughn,

I had my wastegate disconnected for about 5 months, and the check engine light never came on. I am running about 30# boost at peak level. But, after 5 months of trouble-free operation, the check engine light came on at Dieselfest. Needless to say, I was a little worried. I knew I was overboosting, but since it hadn't come on before, I didn't think it ever would. I thought there was another problem. But sure enough, when we plugged in the computer to check the ECM, there was an overboost DTC present. After that, I added the boost module box and have had no problems. With the boost box installed, the engine feels slightly stronger above about 22psi. Accelerates a little better when passing especially. #ad


BOBMING AND BOOSTING



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Evan A. Beck

98. 5 2500, 4x2, RC, ISB, A/T, SLT, 3. 54 LSD, Trailer tow, Aux. suspension, Forest Green/Driftwood, 51,065 miles, 12/10/99

4" Exhaust split into duals, with 4" x 20" chrome tips one on each side after the wheels, Jacobs E-Brake, K&N Filter (Scotty style), Auto-Meter Ultra Lite boost & pyro, turbo silencer ring removed, OEM foglamps, OEM roof marker lights, OEM 1-ton tailgate marker lamps, Sylvania Cool Blue® 9004 headlamp bulbs, Husky diamond plate toolbox, Line-X spray-in bedliner, plus other cosmetic modifications

"I'd Rather be RAMMIN' than STROKIN'"

"Journeyman B. O. M. B. Member"

Page In The Works

 

[Archive]

Well I disconnected my wastegate hose a couple days ago, and seat-of-the-pants it seems a little snappier at light throttle, but getting on it, it acutally seemed to have less power.

So, I decided to try a few 0-60 runs again to see what would happen. After 4 runs going as hard as I could, by best time was 14. 2 seconds, worst was 15+! Before disconnecting the hose, I hit 12. 6 seconds. Takeoff tonight seemed stronger in 2nd gear, but then as soon as the boost built, it was a DOG! Definitely the ECM cuttin' back on my fuel!

Tomorrow the hose goes back on. I think I'll sring for a boost module.

 

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I've been testing the Diesel Dynamics Boost Module for the past couple of days, and it does exactly what is it supposed to: allows boost to rise to 30 psi, while telling the ecm it is within spec. And at the top end, those 9. 5 psi (from 20. 5 to 30) make a difference. It is a kick in the pants to accelerate, and keep on accelerating right past 20. 5. But, as I learned yesterday, you just might push it until the "Check Engine" light illuminates! The turbo whine above 20. 5 is certainly a pleasure to hear!

But the boost module doesn't really meet my particular needs. I am going to save the $$ and invest in a TST Powermax. It offers the same functionality (plugs in between the MAP sensor and the ecm) and yet adds fuel for increased power. I beleive the Powermax, even when turned off, will allow one to increase boost up to 30 psi, and thus acts exactly like the DD boost module.

I find the boost module pricey for what it is. But for those of you who (1) have bigger injectors, whether DD or Bosch RV, who (2) want top end performance, and who (3) don't want to add a fuel enhancing box, the boost module/wastegate elbow is a good addition. Its very easy to install and functions flawlessly.

Craig

 

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CCollar, while I play around with different methods of making power, my current direction is to go with DD stage II injectors and the boost module. I believe this will give me the power I want. I'm basically after increasing performance, making the truck more fun to drive, while hopefully increasing fuel economy. I don't want to take it to the point I compromise dirvetrain integrity. The 5th gear nut thing has me concerned--it's interesting how some folks with the older 5-speeds have failures with light use, whereas the likes of Ted Jannety belt out the HP they do and I don't recall any mention of transmission trouble.

CCollar, if you decide to Powermax, I'd be interested in buying the boost module off of ya. You're right, I think they're too spendy for what they do.

--Vaughn

 

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It seems all this "Boost Module" has to do is send the normal signal to the ECM until the boost gets near 20 psi and then no matter what the sensor reports, not allow the signal going to the ECM to see anything but maximum "selected" boost.

Have I got that right?

In that way the boost signal looks normal up to to the cut back point. Since the boost signal never goes past the cut back point, boost is allow to go up to whatever.

I'll build a device that does that if someone with access to a dyno is willing to try it.

It's going to be expensive. Total price of parts and labor might be as high as $5. 00.


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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell.

 

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bmann, I'm not sure exactly how you'll go about it, but basically one needs to figure out what sort of resitsance range the pressure sensor operates at, and then design something that will not go outside this resistance range even with twice the boost.

I believe the sensor in question is about a 3/4" diameter plug screwed into the intake manifold. It's near cyl. #5, on the underside of the manifold. A wiring harness with 3 wires is plugged into it. What you'd have to do is get a schematic and see how this is wired up, and where the 3 leads go to. Then youd need to come up with your normal resistance values then calculate a voltage divider network with resistors to create a new resistance range. Then fabricate this up as a jumper with male/female connectors on the ends to plug between the wiring harness and sensor.

I'm basing most of this on presumption but I do know all temp & pressure sensors operate on the basis of changing resistance in response to changing environmental conditions. I'd love to see a boost module to get some idea how it is constructed. If you could find the right connectors and had a schematic, it should be quite feasible to build your own for much less money.

--Vaughn

 

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bmann, I think you're correct! I am not sure whether the signal is based on frequency or voltage. In either case, a low pass filter or rectifier would seem to do the trick.

Vaughn, I hope the combo does the trick for you. I wonder though, what gives you the bigger bang for the buck? Would the stock injectors + a hp enhancement box give you more usable power than the dd stII injectors + boost module at a lower price? I myself have the 275HP injectors, and don't see any reason to upgrade them to the DD injectors.

In any case, we each want something different out of our trucks. As long as we're happy with the results, we made the appropriate upgrade!

Craig

 

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What I had in mind is a three ramp OPamp.
The first ramp is a normal 1:1 signal, ramp two is a 1:1. 38 decrease in signal or increase in boost. The third ramp is a 1:2. 12 decrease in signal or increase in boost.
These ratios are log of the input signal to the ECM.


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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell.

 

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OK bmann, that makes sense. I've been away from the electronics books for way too long!

If you get something fabricated, you should get a good idea of success by watching the boost gauge (if you have one).

CCollar, one reason for my method (and this also is based on presumption) is that with higher flow injectors, and using the "stock" fueling rate of the injector pump, less strain would be placed on the pump vs. stock injectors with a Powermax or whatever. And the boost module should ensure more complete combustion by providing more air vs. fuel rate, improving economy and cutting smoke (although probably not by much).

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Vaughn MacKenzie

1998 3/4T Quad Cab 4x4, 24-valve, 5-speed w/open 3. 54, White over Driftwood, Fog Lamps, Air Dam, Agate leather with most options.
245/75/16 Kelley Safari MSRs on M/T Classics, DeeZee running boards, diamond tread bedrail & tailgate protector.
Delvac 1 5W40 Synthetic Oil.
52,975 miles (12/11/99) 16-17 City & 18-20 Highway MPG

 

[Archive]

I've been following this thread for a while and would like to add a few comments. First, the level of fueling available from injectors is not enough to require more boost than the stock wastegate gives, meaning 18 to 20 psi.

When more fuel is added via a box such as the TST PowerMax, more boost is needed. TST invented the boost control elbow that other companies have copied. It is easy to install and effective. Unlike some others, the TST version is also adjustable so you can set the boost wherever you want! There is also nothing to fall out inside the engine/turbo, unlike ones that have a restrictor pressed inside the elbow.

When Mark Chapple, the retired Cummins engineer and head of TST, began developing power uprates for the 24 valve, he tried resistors etc. to fool the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) or boost sensor in the intake manifold. It worked, but without a lot more fuel, was not needed and did not help power.

The TST PowerMax box does include the boost module function, and also adds fuel at a rate that it can be burned properly according to ACTUAL boost, not the phony signal sent back to the engine computer (ecm). Given the price of $300 for a semisignificant boost module, why not buy the PowerMax that does much more. In contract, a competitor that sells another color of box does not monitor or fool the boost signal going to the ecm, but just overwhelms the fueling signal at the pump. Because boost is not monitored, the fueling increase cannot be tailored to actual boost and the truck can smoke badly.

Here in Southern Nevada the smog nazis are alive and well. They are looking for smoking diesels, including construction equipment and heavy trucks, with the goal of absorbing $800 fines for the county coffers. So smoke can cost you the price of a PowerMax in just one bite.

 

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Well, everything you say sounds reasonable. But if the ECM "thinks" there is more boost available, it will add more fuel.

I put togather a device and last night I tried it out.

Results:

First run, the truck ran like MUSH.
I found the curve was upside down and corrected it.
Second run, a noticable improvement. A 4% increase as read on the intruck dyno.
Third run, adjusted the curve. A 15% increase.
Fourth run, adjusted the curve. A 12% increase.

Then we went back to the second setting and did a double blind test with the module on/off. All three people could tell when the module was on. (seat of the pants)

With connectors and packaging the price would be in the $75. 00 range.

Is a 10%-15% increase worth spending $75. 00?

I'm going to try several changes and send Ted a module to try.

And THANKS Ted for the advise on the ECM. Some of my initial assumptions were incorrect and Ted had the answers.


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2000 3500 Quad Cab, SLT+, 4x2 Auto, 3. 54 LSD, Camper & Trailer & Sports Options, Sliding Rear Window, BLACK. With Power Bolt Tailgate Lock, Dodge Sill Guards, Mag-Hytec Rear End Cover, LE-607 rear end oil, Mobil Delvac One Engine Oil, Leer Signature Camper Shell.