Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Bosch Experimental Vr6 Pump!!!

[Joseph Donnelly]

Stefan,

Lawrence and I are playing around with some ideas that could be called "air system upgrade package. "

Hint: ever hear of a Holset HX-48?



Also looking into building a "box" for the 12 valve. I'm jealous of the 24 valve guys. Nowel was joking about an electronic torque plate, but it turns out that such a thing in general is something we are developing

Hint: it will connect to the intake manifold sensor, wiring harness plug-ins, the AFC, etc.

 

[WeirCummin]

Sounds like an PE-EDC pump to me. Lets forget the HX48, Lets shoot for the VGT40.

 

[mikepvg]

I'm advised that DD was NOT to disclose any information regarding test results concerning the VR6 & has broken a confidentiality agreement.



For all you naysayers, do not discount a new part such as the VR6 from one small piece of info taken out of context.

What was the actual combination of modifications & conditions their tests were run on?

Was this pump designed to be a direct replacement or only to be run with certain other mods & for what purpose?

What application was the torque curve actually designed for?, pulling 30,000GVW up over a 13,000ft pass or drag racing in a qtr mile?



People, people, come on now... .

There is a lot of new exciting technology coming down the pipe & some of it will be experimental & not be understood by all.

Can you really judge a book by its cover?

I think not!

I would recommend that no one slam a new piece just from one small piece of info.

AND I would also support individuals (like Don R) that have a lifetime of advanced technological experience.

These are the kind of people that the TDR needs to make it a valuable experience.

There are way too many people NOT participating in the TDR due to a certain lack of objectivity.



Mike

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Mike,



I just got of the phone with Diesel Dynamics and was informed that there was no confidentiality agreement just a guy that wanted to see how the pump tested vs. the other.



The test trucks mods are posted above the graph, and they also said that they will be posting the results of the truck with less upgrades.



They said that they will also post the results of the modified Diesel Dynamics pump vs. the VR6 and the VP44.



Looks like it would be fine on a light weight drag vehicle but not in a dodge ram. I would want to weight for my power until 2500-2600 rpm.



Stefan Kondolay

 

[ATSDiesel]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

Mike,



I just got of the phone with Diesel Dynamics and was informed that there was no confidentiality agreement just a guy that wanted to see how the pump tested vs. the other.



The test trucks mods are posted above the graph, and they also said that they will be posting the results of the truck with less upgrades.



They said that they will also post the results of the modified Diesel Dynamics pump vs. the VR6 and the VP44.



Looks like it would be fine on a light weight drag vehicle but not in a dodge ram. I would want to weight for my power until 2500-2600 rpm.



Stefan Kondolay

Well how about the fact that the truck this VR6 was on did a 15. 4 at 93 mph at the cummins diesel fest with stock injectors with our auto trans 354 gears in four wheel drive. So your facts Are? O" let me see how much we can make up like O" what turbo was used ? what was done with the rest of the fuel system ? So you know so much! how about you tell all of us. So how about you bring your truck down to the track and lets see how it will do at 5,280 ft So do this and lets tell all the world and TDR how hot your truck is. Or please show us ! let us know when your ready. Also the two VR6 pumps were sent up to DD was done in confidence looks like we should ask you how to run a better upgrade.

 

[Bob Wagner]

here is the diesel dynamics data

http://www.dieseldynamics.com/popup/vr6.htm

 

[SixShooter]

WHen did DD start modifing the VP44 pumps I would like to see some info on these modified pumps.

 

[HeberRam]

ATS?

CCannon..... I'm not sure, perhaps you can help... Are you with ATS in Denver? If so you should identify yourself as the forum requires of vendors! I believe I have read other replys on other subjects which you have come accross as rude and not very ojective. Stefan Kondolay and others are simply stating the facts about your pump as Dynoed and tested by Larence at Diesel Dynamics. . If you do make claims about your products, give as the information so we can decide. Don't go on like a kid about bringing our trucks up to Denver to kick your ***!

your attitude on the TDR forum stinks, and by your posts, I won't purchase anything from you in the future... . This forum can make or break future vendors sells, so kept that in mine when you posts... P. S. Make sure we know who you are or the TDR cops will get you.







Mikepvg... As for you, there are a lot of people on this forum that have a lot more experience about Ram trucks than you think Ie. , HVAC, Joe Donnelly, Stefan and Lawence of Diesel Dynamics and possibly me. All of us have taken the aftermarket technology, from clutches, to injectors, to fueling boxes etc. to the max. , and I personally have done a ton of R&D myself. What I am saying is I don't see anyone on this tread not being objective in this new pump/product. Just give us the facts!!!!

 

[Diesel Freak]

oh Geez... we do not need another pi$$ing match.

 

[mikepvg]

Re: ATS?

HeberRam



As you & I both know, there are a lot of people on this forum that have a lot experience reagarding Ram trucks. I NEVER tried to even dispute that.



Joe Donnelly has done some very valuable work for example & is a well respected member. People like Joe need to be extra careful, since people do in fact listen.

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly



Check out www.dieseldynamics.com because they have dyno results with the V6 pump. Anoher highly touted waste of money, imho.





HeberRam

Does that seem objective to you? If you were working with Bosch & Cummins on such a product, would those type of "off the cuff coments" make you very happy?



I didn't think so...



The fact is the VR6 pump says "EXPERIMENTAL" right on the plate.

NO ONE IS TRYING TO SELL IT.

It's an interesting experiment that is providing extremely valuable info on fueling & the software, computer technology that controls it.

Sure, certain existing pumps might have particular characteristics that are desirable, but there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

There is a lot of fascinating technology regarding Cummins & diesel technology in general coming down the pipe.

NONE OF IT IS JUNK! If you think it is, go ahead and implement your own design. I would certainly support you & not attack you for doing so.



As for ATS? If your in the Rocky Mtn region & you need help with your diesel, ANY DIESEL, you might want to look them up. I speak from personal experience & guarantee you'll get what ever you need. Not every vendor has the time nor the patience to deal with all the current TDR issues. So don't judge ATS by any lack of a response to this forum.



As for me? I never claimed to be a desiel expert, so I seek the experts locally for my needs. There are a lot of great vendors in this country & on this site that do me no good due to their far off location. Every diesel owner has his or hers own needs based upon each particular application & operating conditions. My particular operating conditions are unique, so I prefer to patronize a vendor catering to my needs.



BTW, racing promotes competion & improvement. It should teach us humility & good sportsmanship etc... It does not prove who is better than another because that can not be proved or judged by us. You can bring your truck on up to altitude here & kick my *** anytime you want just as long as we can share the beer that you bring! Ya know, race winners always buy!









Have a diesel day.

Mike

 

[K_Arts]

Originally posted by CCannon

Well how about the fact that the truck this VR6 was on did a 15. 4 at 93 mph at the cummins diesel fest with stock injectors with our auto trans 354 gears in four wheel drive.

Clint,



First of all... I'm not trying to attack anybody (as I was previously accused of), but I'm confused and I'm hoping you can bare with me in understanding something.



You stated above that your truck ran a 15. 4 at the Cummins Diesel Fest, but yet in the RMTDR ATS Meeting you stated that your truck runs a 14. 4 at 5400ft. So which is it?



BTW... . If I would have seen your post to Stefan earlier, Maybe we could've met somewhere for dinner and discussed some of this stuff. Stefan and Bill were both here in town yesterday.



Bill and Stefan are currently on their way to Texas. . so it will probably be a couple of days before he can respond (Just an FYI).



Kev

 

[KatDiesel]

This thread can go either way it seems, hopefully it will go in the "right" direction from here on out.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Jacob082

WHen did DD start modifing the VP44 pumps I would like to see some info on these modified pumps.

They did it for a while, but they found it was too exspensive for the gain that was achieved. I don't believe they do it anymore to sale to the public.

 

[HeberRam]

ATS

Mikepvg... Thankyou for your words and expression. I hope ATS develops a ton of things in the future and makes a ton of money!!!I really mean that. The point I was trying to make is if a vendor is making claims regarding a particular product, he should post or print / advertise factual information. Maybe, we all jumped the gun, as you said it was still experimental?? For that I appologise.

I can't speak for Joe Donnelly, however, he was voicing his opinion based on Diesel Dynamics tests on the VR6 pump. . I would hope ATS in the future, would be a little less defensive in their responses. We are all trying to "sift" through the claims made by others so we can make a decision on whats good and not so good. I tend to lean on printed reports, Dyno info etc. , and lastly by people I know and trust to be objective. Enough said!



P. S. where I come from, the loser always buys the beer! Just so you can prepare before I come to Denver, I prefer MILLER-LITE. (ice cold)

 

[KatDiesel]

Stefan and Clint or Don of ATS -

I'm am going to have to ask you here to both take a moment to look at thh guidelines for a moment. Both of you need to identify yourself as being a vendor. I am requesting this be done on the forum for a couple of reasons. First off I know Stefan is on his way to TX with Bill, and I sent an email to ATS and have heard back for a few days so i posted it here where it will most likely be seen the quickest. Not playing anyfavorites here... . hence I asked both of you to do the same. A simple identification fo your respective companies in your signature will do fine. Thanks for your cooperation.



6. 0 Vendor Participation (let’s be clear . . . this includes advertising, solicitation, and pricing). For business interests, we have established an area in our Classified Advertising section for you to post your press release-type correspondence. This section is clearly labeled "Vendor Promotions. " Your information/new product introduction/parts close out, etc. will run for 30 days. Upon expiration, the information may be resubmitted after a 90-day period. This posting service is available only for advertisers of record with the TDR. Business card-type ads in the magazine are very cost effective. Contact the Advertising Manager, Scott Dalgleish, at -- email address removed -- for details.



a. Vendor input and commentary is welcomed in our Discussion Forums. Vendors have proven to provide insightful conversation and commentary. We respectfully request that these three simple rules be followed:



i. No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. The discussion of prices is best left off-line in a private e-mail to those with interest as noted in the appropriate area of the Classified Advertisements. Why? Because many people who visit our web site do not want to pay to read solicitations and sales pitches in our technical Discussion Forums.



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Thank you

 

[joesoot]

Jacob082:

This link lists some in house stuff they do @ DD if you scroll down to stage 4 ETH/stage 5 ETC it does list a mechanical pump mod



http://www.dieseldynamics.com/dinstall.htm



added on edit:

If they could bring the bottom end and keep that top end

#ad

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Clint,



If you want to get into a who has a badder truck, maybe you should start looking at challenging Lawrence as he is the one that builds my power. I never claimed to have a magic truck that why I leave all my enhancements in my signature so everyone can compare. My post was not intended to start this kind of debate, I was just stating that Diesel Dynamics had no obligation to anyone.



I my case I didn't notice much of a difference in altitude affecting performance. I raced in Ashcroft which had a correct altitude of 2800 feet and ran a 14. 08 @ 94mph, during a diesel race. Then the following weekend went to Mission Raceway which had a corrected altitude of 100 feet and ran a 13. 97 @ 94 mph. I'm not saying that in Colorado there will be no difference because I haven't tested it.



But for those who are interested Me and Krystal will becoming to Colorado to Drag Race next year during the Mile High Nationals. I believe it's in the 2nd week in July. Not sure because Seattle is losing there national for 1 year due to renovations. So this may effect the schedule.

 

[KatDiesel]

Stefan -

Thank you.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Remember this one... clear as mud wasn't it!

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Diesel Freak

Remember this one... clear as mud wasn't it!

Throughout this whole thread, the one thing that stuck out in my mind was what HVAC said at the beginning.



Andrew