bosch recomendations for lubricity

[Kry226]

"No other additive on the market, which we have tested, will do as well and many that we tested were not even close to these numbers. "

So Brian is saying that no other additive they tested came close to duplicating the HFRR numbers that their Power Service provided? So which additives have they tested? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Matt400]

So which additives have they tested? Inquiring minds want to know.

If they were to say it would be like slamming the competition which wouldn't look good at all IMO but what the heck, bigger companies do it all the time on TV.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

This was especially interesing to me:



Brian: I have a 1998, 12-valve Dodge and it makes a difference when I don't treat the fuel. I would suggest that you use our Diesel Fuel Supplement during the winter months and in the non-winter months use the Diesel Kleen. Diesel Kleen does not have an antigel, however it has more detergents and Cetane Boost which will greatly benefit your truck. It has the same lubricity Slick Diesel package so no problem there. Diesel Kleen will give even more emissions reductions and give better fuel economy and engine performance.





MAINLY because it is the Diesel Kleen *I* use - haven't really needed the anti-gel of the PS fuel supplement - so replacing that characteristic with the other improvements provided by the DK makes sense to me. I had some time back had a similar exchange with reps of Power Service - and that was when I switched from the FS to the DK version...

 

[Matt400]

Interesting fuel brand news

While in my quest to establish Cetane and HFRR index of the various brands available to me I learned something. Below is an email I got from Chevron:

The Chevron Texaco merger to form ChevronTexaco, when it first occurred, disallowed ChevronTexaco from owning the Texaco stations in North America. They, instead, continued to be owned by Shell. They did not have Chevron gasoline or diesel.



As of July 1, 2004, both ChevronTexaco and Shell have the rights to the Texaco name and ChevronTexaco has chosen to use the name in 13 mostly-southern states and the District of Columbia. The thirteen states are Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and Maryland. Chevron is also currently rolling out Chevron-owned Texaco stations in seven states in the West. They are Oregon, California, Idaho, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico.



This makes it confusing since some of the Texaco stations in these states will be owned by Shell and some of them will be owned by ChevronTexaco. As of now the only way to tell which Texaco stations in those states are owned by ChevronTexaco is that they will accept the Chevron credit card and will advertise that fact on the premises. If you do not live in one of the states mentioned, all of your state's Texaco stations will be Shell-owned. If you do live in one of the states mentioned, those Texaco stations found there may be owned by either Shell or ChevronTexaco.



All of this will become easier in less than two years time (07/01/06). At that time ChevronTexaco will own exclusive rights to the Texaco name and any Chevron or Texaco stations you find anywhere in the US will be selling ChevronTexaco fuel (and not Shell fuel).

I have yet to find out from Shell & Union 76 what their numbers are for CA.

I did notice that Shell branded fuel (from an actual Shell station) seems to foam more while pumping than the Chevron in our area and I can't help but wonder if the meter is selling some air

 

[Windscreen]

"No other additive on the market, which we have tested, will do as well and many that we tested were not even close to these numbers. "

So Brian is saying that no other additive they tested came close to duplicating the HFRR numbers that their Power Service provided? So which additives have they tested? Inquiring minds want to know.

This brochure from Stanadyne (April '02) claims their Performance Formula outperforms Power Service. For a base fuel with HFRR results of 571 micron, Perf. Formula reduced it to 357 (tied for best in test) and PS took it down to 382. Testing was done by Southwest Research Institute, which I know to be a very reputable lab for engine, fuel, and lube testing.



After seeing the Bosch report on fuel injection equipment durability, I will be

purchasing Amoco Premier Diesel when ever I can. They claim to meet every category recommended by the Engine Manufacturer's Association for premium diesel, including lubricity by ASTM D6079 of 450 micron (0. 45 mm). I'm hoping/assuming that D6079 is the same test as HFRR.



That said, 450 micron is no super duper number, so I'll probably stick with Stanadyne for the winter to get the cloud point reduction & lubricity, and if PS is cheaper, use it in summer



Steve

 

[Matt400]

Still digging up stuff on this and I find that GM issued a TSB recommending Stanadyne here:

http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1687



Also something from Ford here:

http://www.fueladditiveonline.com/ford_app1.pdf



In addition to that info I found some interesting reading on why demulsification can be better then emulsification especially when a vehicle sets in cold weather here:

http://www.stanadyne.com/dsg/showfile.asp?id=1240

 

[Matt400]

I had an interesting conversation today with a Shell Fuel representative on the new CARB low surfer diesel. CARB granted a 120 day grace period for them to roll out the new fuel because it is not possible to add the needed lubricicity at the refineries.

They can't add at the refineries because adding would contaminate pipe lines that ship various grades of other fuel such as Jet A for aircraft. Instead Shell is working on implementing equipment that will add in the needed lubricicity further down the distribution route to meed CARB's guidelines for HFRR which may end up being too high at 520.

 

[tschwab]

Yep, the more I think I might want to change and try out another product, I then do some research and my conclusion (for me) is to stay with Stanadyne Performance Formula.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I use Primrose PowerMaster405.



Used it in my Dmax for 72,000 miles. Never had a fuel issue. Traded the truck.



Using it in my Dodge. . 22,000 miles... too soon to tell but no problems.



This is highly concentrated stuff and excellent quality.

 

[Texas Diesel]

I know this may sound a little ignorant but, why couldn't you use a synthetic two cycle oil in diesel? It doesn't have alcohol, it's made to lube at very high ratios, it burns clean, and I have turned 14,000 RPMs in my dirt bikes and when they have been torn down, they still have minimal wear. I was just thinking, if it can lube under these kinds of conditions, why wouldn't it work for an injector pump? Let me know your thoughts.

Thats what I have been doing for over 2 years except I use 2 cycle oil that isnt synthetic to keep costs down. The injection pump doesnt work as hard as a 2 cycle engine. We mix at 200:1, what ratio do you use?

 

[muddyduck]

I use Lucas injector treatment which is available at any o'reillys. I buy it there because I have one close. I have seen it at flying j's and pilot truck stops as well. Lucas is and has always been big in the trucking industry and is well represented at trucking shows and on xm 171 which is the open road channel on xm.

 

[Chugiak]

More info . . . While the new ASTM standard for lubricity is a MAXIMUM of 520 microns WSD using the HFRR method, Cummins' maximum is 450 microns. We've got huge issues in the North dealing with fuel quality, and it's not really the engine manufacturer's responsibility -- they can't control what you put in the engine. All they can do is specify what consitutes the minimum quality that fuel should be to meet Cummins' performance specs.



As for lubricity additives, there are a bunch of them out there. Fleetguard has a new product out for the ISB that has fuel additive inside the fuel filter. The Fleetguard FS 20000 is available through any Cummins distributor.

 

[Matt400]

Fleetguard has a new product out for the ISB that has fuel additive inside the fuel filter. The Fleetguard FS 20000 is available through any Cummins distributor.

Never heard of that, how can that work, sounds like a gimmick?

 

[Doubleclutch]

Sounds like a good idea! Buffer the Huckey-Puckey to erode with fuel flow, when you need it. I'd buy that. By 2007, we'll need every crutch we can carry.

Greg

 

[gtobey]

Lubricity Additive

I have added another step to my fill ups:



(old)8 oz. STANADYNE Performance Formula &

(new)4 oz. STANADYNE Lubricity Formula



per 30 gallons of fuel before fill up. This ULSD fuel is bad news! I have read a bunch of articles and the logistics nightmare involved in pumping the ULSD through pipelines to the tank farms from the refineries is not going to be easy. They are concerned about contamination from the lubrication additive to the other fuels such as jet fuel where the lubricity additive is forbidden, and contamination from the additive being stuck in the "deadheads", or the short capped off pipes along the way and the valves in the major pipelines. They can't afford to build an entire new pipeline exclusively for ULSD, and so they may force the tank farms to put in the lubricity additives. The tank farms would have have a chemist to test the fuel and maintain accurate records, and also perform sulphur ppm tests at each tank farm to guarantee EPA compliance. Talk about expense!



Each time fuel is handled, there is a risk of contamination, so refineries might have to put out diesel with 5-6 ppm max sulphur so that by the time the trucks drop the fuel at the stations it will not exceed 15 ppm. A fuel with 5-6 ppm of sulfur would be extremely 'dry'! Look out folks! Next year could get interesting, to say the least. Stock up on whatever your choice of additive is now! We all know what happens in the law of supply and demand!

 

[rbattelle]

You don't think the Performance Formula has enough lubricity by itself?



-Ryan

 

[kscheffler]

Amalgamated is the way to go and you can get it in 5 gallon cans which results in a cost effective solution. I just carry mine in HDPE water bottles works great... . http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/main.htm

 

[betterthanstock]

I just carry mine in HDPE water bottles works great

as long as you don't reach for it while driving

 

[dieselpilot1969]

I've been using 1/2 container Power Service and a shot of 30w non-detergent motor oil at every fillup for two years now. You can notice a difference when it is not used like more noise and a bit rougher idle.

 

[crobertson1]

I went to Cummins Rocky Mountain today looking for that Premium Plus, but all they had was Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant. It says it cleans injectors and conditions the fuel, lubes pumps, injectors and compression rings. It also says it's for gas or diesel. Does anyone know if this stuff is any good or not?