Brake Rotors are CRACKED.....

[mikepvg]

Need advice/opinions on cracking front brake rotors.

Normal?

Heat stressed? (overworked brakes) or

Defective Dodge rotors? (any chance Mopar might cover this?



100's of cracks measuring 3/8"-1/2" in length running perpendicular to rotor travel. Both fronts effected. Brakes still work fine, do not pull etc... The persistant squeaking made me take the wheels off for a look see & I was amazed @ what I saw.



70K miles clocked. Aprox 1,500 lbs of tools always in the bed. CO Mtn driving. No exhaust brake... .



Catastrophic failure imminent?



Recommendations for rotor replacement?



Thanks!



Mike

 

[BHolm]

That is a lot of miles for rotors on a 7000 lb+ truck run in the mountains. I guess it doesn't surprise me too much. There is a slim chance you could have a catostrophic failure.



I think the brakes on these trucks are more than adequate, I run mine hard in the mountains too. It's not too hard to get them hot if you hustle down the hill though. I had a half ton Chevy rental truck last week with badly warped rotors at 16,000 miles. Factor in winters and the heat cycle can get brutal.



I would go with OEM pads and rotors and seriously consider an exhaust brake, I wouldn't be without mine, even on an empty truck if you drive the mountains daily.



There is no way they will waranty the rotors. They are a 4 yr old wear part and driving habits play into their condition heavily. Just be glad you found the problem.

 

[thashane]

I've had to run rotors on a light truck that were cracked severly enough (could see light through the cracks) to where you could feel the cracks at every application feeling like a super aggressive abs system. Was the result of a high speed dirt road mtn run that had a water crossing at the end. I rolled through the crossing but wasn't thinking that the rotors were hot enough to crack when they hit the water

It was dumb, but they never gernaided and I couldn't afford to replace them immediately.

Hairline cracks could just be small surface cracks, from the expansion of the rotor, or they could go all the way through and are just waiting for mileage to explode.



Safety says replace them, rotors are cheap compared to an out of control vehicle.

You could always get the rotors spun/resurfaced although this reduces the rotor mass and could lead to future warping, may prove that your cracks are only surface cracks. But then again, I am no automotive safety expert or mechanic, and only speaking from my experience, which has been short in the aspect of things.

If it was my truck. I'd watch em, check them often.

 

[DPKetchum]

Not unusal for a big loaded down truck. Measure thickness and if plenty turn them and see. Lots of rotors the cracks are gone with a turn/resurface. If not replace them. I've seen LOTS of surface cracks over the years. Flywheels on manual transmission trucks do the same thing at times.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I have almost 100,000 miles on my OEM rotors. 3rd set of pads. no mountain driving. Lots of 120mph->60mph slow downs. more so aggressive braking and driving then loaded.

pads are at about 1/3 now. I should measure the rotors and go with a 4th set of pads. I'd rather get that turbo then the EGR brake setup I want.

 

[jelag]

Our 04 running an exhaust brake went 160K miles before the first brake job... . we turned the rotors, flushed the fluid and installed new pads...

Make sure the dust boots are not loose on the pistons... this will allow dust in the piston and slow/stop the release and can cause premature brake wear, and excessive heat... .

I'd put new rotors and a good to high quality pad... do not compress the piston with the bleeder closed and push the dirty fluid back to the master cylinder...

 

[mikepvg]

Well, I spent the day on the phone w/ numerous rotor co's. As it "turns" out there are a million brake & rotor co's in the world & quality replacement performance rotors can be had for considerably less than the OEM.



The cracks R def there, some surface, some deep. Def cause for safety concern @ some point. No cracks closer to the venting where some air can circulate & help cool the rotor. So I am going w/ the theory of slotted & drilled rotors & they R going on as soon as they get here from UPS. They cost less than half of a stock non slotted & non drilled OEM rotor AND unbelievably come with a LIFETIME WARRANTY against warping and cracking!!! S/b a good test... . Oo. Only time will tell. Will mark this thread & repost as necessary.



Mike

 

[jelag]

Mike

The problem your having is not a common problem... . that means either its the driver exceeding the standards for the brakes or a boot holding the piston out and allowing it to overheat... .

Since your not a race car driver, slotted or drilled rotors won't do you a lot of good, their purpose is to allow air movement at high speeds and pressures to drop the temperature..... read high speed chase as in police cars... . etc. .

You need to find the root cause not just try and mask it over... if its your habits than you need to consider that, or if you think its the truck you need someone who can examine the vehicle and find the cause and correct it... . otherwise this will come back to haunt you...

Also remember that most castings and brake parts come from off shore vendors... . and there might be say 200 companies you can purchase the stuff from, there is only a limited number of manufactures and the same item is put into 30 different boxes with different labels...

 

[HBarlow]

I agree completely with Jelag above. It is not common to experience brake rotor problems with our Dodges. Your problem either results from driving style or caliper release problems. The OEM brakes are fine under normal heavy use and abuse.



I put 325k miles on an '01 with 6 speed manual and exhaust brake mostly pulling trailers. The front brake pads were replaced once but were not severely worn. The original rear brake pads are still on the truck at 342k miles. The rotors have never been touched and are still perfect.



I have 237k on my current '06 with 48RE automatic and exhaust brake. It has pulled heavy trailers for its entire life. I recently replaced the front pads because one pad had worn abnormally. When the calipers were removed and examined the brake shop could find no problem. The rear pads are original and the rotors are in perfect shape.



Harvey

 

[mikepvg]

I definately hear you guys... BUT hauling down a 10,000 lb truck from 100mph or even 80mph on a 6% grade (w/o exhaust brake) on a regular basis (sometimes w/ a loaded horse trailer) might warrant a performance upgrade (drilled & slotted). Considering that they are still considerably cheaper than OEM, whats the down side? Why not try them? If they don't work, I don't really care because it's a cheap experiment considering how cheap rotors actually are & readily available. I will consider them a replacement item just like pads. There might be a really good reason Dodge engineers designed these brake systems with super easily replaceable rotors..... BTW, Does anyone really think that Dodge or any manufacturer for that matter would put the best of everything on your vehicle regardless of cost????????????? Ther r a million places to skimp to save costs & it must be done 4 them to survive in this hugely competive mkt place sailing thru recessionary times...



I hear the BS stories about how people get this mileage & that longevity out of a part, but the reality is every truck is used differently w/ different loads under different conditions and no 2 compare. Irrelevant. Just as no 2 individuals are the same. This is the very reason there is no MPG rating on the sticker. No 2 people can drive the dam thing exactly the same way! I have never gotten more than 20K out of a set of tires no matter which brand. Does that mean all tires suck? I have never gotten more than 30-35K out of a set of brake pads. Does that mean all the pad co's r using accelerated planned obsolence to get me in the pocketbook? It's just what I do w/ the truck for a living & the geographic area that I do it in that obviously presents certain challenges. So far this 04. 5 model has the best brakes, by far, that I ever ever used or owned. They didn't stress crack below 50K or have any other problems for that matter. But the rotors are now completely toast at 69K due to too many over heating events and "probably" not from any defect. There was no warpage, no pulling, no shuttering etc... no other problems to report during this lifespan. They did a wonderful job & s/b saluted. Oo. b4 I bury them in the landfill.....



There is only one answer for over heating, if I can not or will not change any driving parameters or environments... . and that is more cooling. And 1 way to do that is drilling the rotors. Slotting can help cooling marginally but really has another mission. The bottom line, It's a lifetime warranty... I do my own work... . and I must do my own testing... . to actually see what will work for me & my application. I see it as an extremely cost effective experiment, especially considering the lifetime wrrty offered. If it doesn't work out I can always "downgrade" to the OEM flat style rotors. Btw, There certainly must be a reason why so many drilled & slotted rotors are offered by so many companies including int'l giants like EBC for these trucks. They don't offer them because these are "race" trucks but the benefits of "race" technology is obvious in all automotive/truck applications.



There will be a follow up rpt on these "performance" rotors. If they work 4 me , they will most certainly work 4 U And if they don't, U will want to know about it





Mike

 

[thashane]

I have some opinions on slotted and cross drilled rotors, I am not trying to burst your bubble, as you seem very excited to receive them, and I think they could aid your truck very well.

These are just a few items that I have come across in aspects of performance automotive applications, and may not apply to you, but I will post and will openly accept corrections if I am incorrect. A warning given that I have been on a coffee induced buzz busting out several reports that are due tomorrow morning and plan on being up doing even more of them before I get to go to bed, so my spelling and grammar may be a little off.

This is all based off of what I have read, and what I have experience with.



The main reason crossdrilling and slots surfaced was to give the expanding gasses created by the brake pads friction against the rotor surface a place to expand to. Basically the holes or slots carried the expanding gasses away from the rotors surface allowing the brake pads to better mate with the surface of the rotor. This applied heavily to racing back in the 60-70's as I understand. But with most common street and aggressive street pads of the 21st century the same gasses are no longer a problem due to a change in pad materials.



I do agree that the holes do provide more surface area of the rotor to air contact, and that this could aid in cooling. The downside to this, is that the rotor itself now actually has less surface area than it originally had if using the same sized rotors in both an oem application vs a slotted or drilled application. Thus meaning that the pad contacts the rotor less, reducing your braking effectiveness and increasing heat and braking distances. Although this may be a small factor that could be outweighed by the cooling factor gained through cross drilling a rotor. I always try to stick to the highest surface area of actual braking contact myself. Now if you were upgrading to a larger rotor and caliper package, even with cross drilled rotors you would be increasing hte surface area of rotor, which would be a good thing. And is how I believe these upgrades were first introduced to the public. Just the theory of hte bigger rotor was lost, as it was easier to install an oem sized application without the worry of adjusting brake proportionality or caliper and wheel considerations. So manufacturers siezed the market for this, as slotted rotors do make a for an appealing aesthetic upgrade, and could be easily done with stock sized blank rotors.



I do not have a problem with slotted rotors such as powerslots, as much as I have a problem with cross drilled rotors. If you were having a problem with cracks before, the reduced surface area of the cross drilled rotor is going to be supporting the same temperatures that your stock rotors encountered, just with less mass to distribute the heat. This could lead to the rotors heating up faster than before, and leading to an increased chance of cracking. As for a fact most cross drilled rotors are notorious for cracking. This is not a problem with race vehicles as the rotors are replaced often, but with street driven vehicles could be a problem.



I acouple of vehicles that I drive on mountain roads at spirited rates that actually will have the rotors glowing before the end of my runs. I can fade out the stock brakes on the dodge in just 2 miles of spirited driving to the point where I am afraid to keep pushing. I feel that it is just hte pad fading away, and that an aggressive street pad would correct my issues with braking and allowing me to push the dodge further, but I try not to flog my 3 ton vehicle and will stick to my lighter and more nimble (cheaper) modes of enjoyment.



Please let us know what your experiences are as I'm interested to hear your input from someone who also gets 20k out of tires

 

[BHolm]

SLaresen is pretty much dead on. I might go with slotted rtors for your use but no way would I go with the "drilled" versions. First, I hope for your sake those are cast in holes and not actually drilled. If they have been drilled, the cracks will be back in under 10k miles, that is my prediction. Even cast in holes will end up with cracks much sooner than the flat rotors.



As far as why they sell them, it is a gimmick, all style, very little function. They look cool. I succumbed to this on my Porsche, went to bigger cast in hole rotors with bigger calipers. They had stress cracks in no time. I never had the problem with smaller flat rotors. These were expensive factory Porsche rotors too.



The other consideration is that a rotor is a heat sink. Drilled rotors have less mass than the same size flat rotor. You have actually reduced your braking power IMO.



The best solution I have found and tested is cryogenic treatment of rotors. Freeze them in liquid nitrogen. It re-arranges the structure of the metal. They last almost twice as long on my race car. Slotting I would go with, as mentioned it removes the gasses developed under severe braking. Done properly it is also a good gauge of thickness as the slots are usually done down to the minimum thickness. Assuming you have even wear, you can eyeball when the rotors are at minimum spec.



Another consideration is debris getting in the holes, it happens and can make a mess of pads. Considering the gravel used on the roads during Colorado winters, I wouldn't run drilled ones here for that reason too.



Good Luck, let us know how your experiment goes.

 

[mikepvg]

Good Luck, let us know how your experiment goes.

Absolutely will do. No 1 is more interested in the result than I & the beauty of these technical threads is sharing



There r different & valid schools of thought on all sides of this theory/debate.



On all my race bikes, all rotors r drilled & have been 4 several decades. Wouldn't a smaller non drilled rotor that weighs less & thus produce less gyroscopic effect & thus greatly increase handling and producing a most desirable effect? Or would it produce it @ a cost of less mechanical force (decreased braking) due to the deceased leveraged effect (clamping force is now closer to axle). Drilling, Is it really 4 heat or gas? R the slots really 4 gas or heat? What about dimpled? What about all the diferent alloys possible? What about the myriad rotor pad combinations? There r too many variables that I will not be capable of quantifying w/o a mechanical engineering degree. :{ It's just not really black & white. Unfortunately after talking to all the "experts" on the phone 4 an entire day, there is absolutely no concensus on what to do & what will happen.



Thats why I ended up chosing a Co that offered a LifeTime wrrty. I can experiment mostly on their dime!Oo.

If you like working on mechanical things, what can be better than that?:-laf



Mike

 

[mikepvg]

1000 mile report

BrakePlanet.com drilled & slotted rotors

 

[mikepvg]

BrakePlanet.com CNC drilling. See anything wrong with this?

 

[mikepvg]

1000 mile report

Been learning a great many interesting things... . Oo.



1) The cracks on the OEM rotors are NORMAL & COMMON on Dodge rotors. It will make U feel better to know that the Ford rotors crack way worse. But the good news is that OEM Dodge Rotors has sufficiently thickness to turn very deep cracks right off making a perfectly serviceable rotor.



2) Huge difference in aftermarket rotor prices. WHY? May or may not be the rotor blanks & material used. Definately a BIG difference in machining technique & tolerance however. Notice how BrakePlanet.com drilled 75% (6 of 8 3 holed grpings) right thru the center structural venting:{ Pathetic machining#@$%!

What U can't see is the 8 holed lug pattern has a good 1/8" tolerance enabling the rotor to be OFF CENTER of the hub!!!! Very noticeable when positioned off center (brakes pulsate!) but can be centered up w/ a few taps of the hammer B4 torqueing lug nuts. I don't think the pimpled face kid at the tire shop will do this when I get new tires or a rotation... :{



3) Turn around time? Took BP well over a month to do that fine work!



BrakePlanet.com response?

"We'll give U another 15% off for the delay. " OK, but they never ponyed up.

When questioned about the poor CNC drilling placement? "We'll check w/ the CNC shop & confirm error & send U out a new set. " OK, but never heard back from BP after several weeks, and a dozen or so phone calls & emails.

Customer service = NONE

Warranty = probably NONE... how could 1 enact a warranty if U can't even get them on the phone?



Anyways... ...

1000 report is as follows:

After being very careful to center up the BP rotors, they, to date, work equally as well as the OEM units when new. Drilled, slotted zinc plated rotors with new pads front & back run $241 delivered. About $50 more than just a set of front brake pads only from the Dodge dealer!!!

Will they warp?

Will they crack?

Will the huge defficiency in structural integrity from improper CNC drilling shorten the life of these rotors significantly or worse?



Only after alot of heat & miles will I be able to determine the final outcome. Should be no problem doing both this summer.



Was I wise in choosing BrakePlanet.com? :{ That's a rhetorical question



Backup plan?

OEM rotors are cut/turned & hanging on the wall waiting to be installed at the very 1st sign of trouble



Why bother w/ this crap quality parts?

BrakePlanet.com is totally unresponsive, so what can I do w/ these parts?

EXPERIMENT, that's what I can do!!! And hopefully learn some more... .



Can a totally & incorrectly drilled & slotted rotor can hold up over time?

Is there enough structural integrity?

I can & will certainly put these parts to the test.

IF these crappy parts pass my severe duty test, what will that indicate to all the naysayers that say we can not drill our rotors w/o premature cracking? Definately want to get some insight to this drilling debate... .



Who knows?



The experiment continues... ... .



Oh... BTW, if it is not totally obvious, DO NOT PATRONIZE BRAKEPLANET. COM if you want quality work, customer service & followup... ... ... .



Mike

 

[jelag]

Someone mentioned that they were entering a 6% grade at 80 mph with a load... Our 04 tows a 20K lb trailer and if we entered a 6% grade at 60 mph we'd loose the truck and the trailer... these trucks and their brakes are not designed for that... . often in Oregon they post a sign that states the speed at which you go up the hill is the same speed you need to be at when you crest that hill and start down the other side... . and the same gear...

Our trucks are sticks and if we go up the hill at 35 in 4th that is the speed and gear we go down the hill at with the exhaust brake on... and we get 160K miles on a set of brakes with no cracked rotors... .

Also remember that slotted and vented rotors are designed for race cars, going 175 mph that use their brakes in bursts and need to dump the heat from the ceramic friction so that in the next turn they can brake again... . nothing like we need when going down a 6% grade... we don't go fast enough for the air passing the rotors to remove the heat... so slotted and vented rotors for truck applications is a waste of money... and the photos above of the work done is a real crime... .

Last, there is a throw away dimension on all rotors and drums... this dimension is based on its ability to absorb heat and shed the heat during braking... if the material is too thin it can't absorb enough heat nor shed it for proper cooling... thus the throw away dimension... can you use drums and rotors past this dimension, sure you can... . the won't crumble and fall apart... . but a driver who doesn't know his salt will have a failure.....

We just had a firetruck, coming back from a fire with a full load of water, going down hill... . 6-7% grade with a driver who was not versed in hills loose the truck... the driver claimed the brakes failed... and of course up examination and testing it was found he overheated the brakes and they faded to the point that he couldn't stop the truck... . one truck lost, $75 grand, no one hurt, and the pride of the first department has a little tarnish... . needless to say the chief had a very important retraining session... . 2 things changed... . 1 - dump the water before returning from the fire, and 2 - drive slower.....

 

[bigdaddydieseldan]

look at egr brakes :-laf

 

[BHolm]

Been learning a great many interesting things... . Oo.



1) The cracks on the OEM rotors are NORMAL & COMMON on Dodge rotors. It will make U feel better to know that the Ford rotors crack way worse. But the good news is that OEM Dodge Rotors has sufficiently thickness to turn very deep cracks right off making a perfectly serviceable rotor.

Thats funny, my 2006 has over 100k miles on its original brake rotors and they show no signs of cracking, nor did the four other third gen trucks I owned. All of them ran heavy loads through the mountains, only the last two had exhaust brakes mounted. I definately do not drive like grandma either. Normal and Common, that is BS.

2) Huge difference in aftermarket rotor prices. WHY? May or may not be the rotor blanks & material used. Definately a BIG difference in machining technique & tolerance however. Notice how BrakePlanet.com drilled 75% (6 of 8 3 holed grpings) right thru the center structural venting:{ Pathetic machining#@$%!

What U can't see is the 8 holed lug pattern has a good 1/8" tolerance enabling the rotor to be OFF CENTER of the hub!!!! Very noticeable when positioned off center (brakes pulsate!) but can be centered up w/ a few taps of the hammer B4 torqueing lug nuts. I don't think the pimpled face kid at the tire shop will do this when I get new tires or a rotation... :{



3) Turn around time? Took BP well over a month to do that fine work!



BrakePlanet.com response?

"We'll give U another 15% off for the delay. " OK, but they never ponyed up.

When questioned about the poor CNC drilling placement? "We'll check w/ the CNC shop & confirm error & send U out a new set. " OK, but never heard back from BP after several weeks, and a dozen or so phone calls & emails.

Customer service = NONE

Warranty = probably NONE... how could 1 enact a warranty if U can't even get them on the phone?



Anyways... ...

1000 report is as follows:

After being very careful to center up the BP rotors, they, to date, work equally as well as the OEM units when new. Drilled, slotted zinc plated rotors with new pads front & back run $241 delivered. About $50 more than just a set of front brake pads only from the Dodge dealer!!!

Will they warp?

Will they crack?

Will the huge defficiency in structural integrity from improper CNC drilling shorten the life of these rotors significantly or worse?



Only after alot of heat & miles will I be able to determine the final outcome. Should be no problem doing both this summer.



Was I wise in choosing BrakePlanet.com? :{ That's a rhetorical question



Backup plan?

OEM rotors are cut/turned & hanging on the wall waiting to be installed at the very 1st sign of trouble



Why bother w/ this crap quality parts?

BrakePlanet.com is totally unresponsive, so what can I do w/ these parts?

EXPERIMENT, that's what I can do!!! And hopefully learn some more... .



Can a totally & incorrectly drilled & slotted rotor can hold up over time?

Is there enough structural integrity?

I can & will certainly put these parts to the test.

IF these crappy parts pass my severe duty test, what will that indicate to all the naysayers that say we can not drill our rotors w/o premature cracking? Definately want to get some insight to this drilling debate... .



Who knows?



The experiment continues... ... .



Oh... BTW, if it is not totally obvious, DO NOT PATRONIZE BRAKEPLANET. COM if you want quality work, customer service & followup... ... ... .



Mike

So they are machined like crap, do not center properly on the hub, and most likely are fashioned from a low grade steel to save you money. You are actually going to run those on your truck? Do you plan to run hard with a load on in the rocky mountains? Please let me know where you do this high performance driving and the color of your truck so I can stay way clear. You are going to kill yourself, hopefully your experiment only takes you out in an act of natural selection and leaves us innocents to live another day.



Your post and pics are pretty disturbing.

 

[DPKetchum]

Slight cracking in 2500/3500 rotors is pretty common. Some folks are down right hard on brakes. Saw lots of flywheels in the same trucks with slight cracks also. More in work and fleet trucks then the causal RVer.