2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Brakes that keep breaking

[Bseg]

The front brakes still have major issues on this truck. After replacing the rotors and the pads I lost an inboard pad on the drivers side with only 20k miles on it. I put another set of pads on to get by and the inboard pad disintegrated after 7k miles and the outboard pad looks brand new! Rotors get cracked within a few thousand miles and I'm not riding them or braking real hard.



Is the pad being destroyed cause the caliper is sticking?



I don't tow much of a load and that's only during the summer months. Normally drive in stop and go commuter traffic and try to use the brakes as little as possible.



People have suggested the slotted and drilled rotors but then when I talk to "brake experts" they say that they aren't going to help.



I would like to fix this problem once and for all. I've got a truck repair shop that is going to look at it tomorrow. I am going to see if they can install the 1 ton wheel cylinders too.



Any other suggestions appreciated.

 

[DOUGMartin]

I had a problume with my brackes acting up and it turned out the be the slides the caliper rides on. I dont know if the 97s have the same set up but mine where all gumed up and sticking.

 

[Bseg]

I thought that was the problem and tried using special high temp lube that was made for those but I still have the same problem.



Thanks for the suggestion.



I plan on figuring this out sooner or later and will post once I get a definitive answer.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

First off I woul bleed the brake system as the fluid that IS in there is now cooked. The heat from that pad has surly boiled the fluid and has probably caused pitting in the brake piston's cylinder bore. That in itself will cause the piston to hang up and will keep the pad riding on the rotor. What really would be the right thing to do is rebuild the caliper. You can do an inspection by removing the caliper and SLOWLY and carefully blow air in to pop out the piston and inspect the bore and piston surfaces. If they are pitted too badly a reman caliper may be worth your time and money versus honing and resealing.

 

[jtwcummins]

The contact areas where the caliper rides needs to be really cleaned, almost polished. Use a good synthetic lube on these areas before reassembly. It would also be a good idea to flush the fluid, and dirt, out of the system. To do this right a power bleeder needs to be used.

I broke down and spent the money for a complete EGR front upgrade, NO problems since and brakes are alot better than the factory units. Cost about $900 for everything. They use silicon on the calipers for seals so they take heat much better

 

[y-knot]

I have to agree, if you are tired of screwing around with this truck and it's lame brakes, contact the fellows at EGR. They have a really nice brake package and while you are at it, pop for the larger rear cylinders and shoes. Packages like the ones they sell are nice for several reasons. They give an immediate and overall up-grade, addressing the brakes as a unit. Also by going with a kit, it takes the guess work out of the solution and keeps the guy that likes to cheap out on parts, on the right track. The EGR isn't the only system out, but it is the only one that I know of that addresses the issues of the Dodge/Cummins combo. It works and there have been many that have tried and liked the results, including myself.

 

[redram]

brakes

An option for the fronts that does not include going to a complete after market is to get some 'remanufactured' calipers from Napa, Autozone, etc, along with either the Performance Friction pads (lifetime replacement for $40) or the Raybestos from Napa.



Once you've done all that, make sure that your Rear brakes are working. If they are not functional or are not properly adjusted, you're stopping the truck with only the fronts.



Also check the size of the rear brake cylinder as I believe that one of the tricks is to replace teh 2500 cylinder to the 3500 sized cylinder to increase the brake bias more to the rear. Since you are 4X4, if you've played with your suspension, you may have changed the brake bias towards the front due to a change in the way the brake proportioning valve is functioning. (weigh transfer of body under braking)



I have had good success using the remanufactered Napa calipers with the Performance Friction pads.

Be glad you have the 4X4 the way you are going through rotors, the 3500 on my 96 has 'integrally cast rotor/ hub combination meaning they cost $200 per side! (not the 60-80 like on a 4X4 where you just replace the rotor separate from the hub)



Good luck.

 

[pcorssmit]

From what I understand, your '97 should already have the larger (1-1/16 bore) rear cylinders that the 3500s use; mine did. I upgraded to 1-1/8 cylinders (which from what I can tell did not come on any of these trucks), and for the mostly empty driving I do, I don't think it was worth it, plus they are usually a special order part and about double the cost of the 1-1/16 ones.



I put reman calipers on mine last Sunday, cost was ~$28/each from Advance Auto, and they come preassembled/lubed with hardware. I'm currently running the NAPA pads that were recommended to me by a mechanic friend, however he is now recommending a Bendix pad for them. I didn't replace pads on mine when I did the calipers since they still had some life left. I replaced the calipers since the truck was pulling really bad to the right when the brakes were applied, it is much better now. I noticed greater wear on the right side pads as well.



Proper rear brake adjustment is crucial, don't rely on the automatic adjusters. I also have good luck with gravity bleeding on both ends of the truck.



Pete

 

[Extreme1]

A couple more things if you want to save $. Did you remove the pin assemblys and clean them when you lubed them?



Also, in addition to makeing sure that the pad/caliper interface is smooth and clean, you need to make sure that the caliper can move in the spindle. Sometimes when these get a few years old they get tight with rust.

 

[Bseg]

Update on the brakes:



I went ahead and paid someone to try to fix the problems I've been having cause I didn't have the time to do it myself. It cost more than I could have done if for myself but at least there is a warranty.



Had both front calipers replaced with remanufactured Bendix units and the rotors were turned. My rear cylinders were 15/16" so I had them put in 1 1/16" cylinders.



So far the brakes seem about the same except the rear seems to lock up under a panic brake situation which tells me that the proportioning valve might be another problem.



I need to look at the wear on the front pads to see how even they are, this will tell me if the problem is still there. Next step is to try and diagnose the proportioning valve.



Thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions, I'll keep you posted as I learn more.

 

[y-knot]

So after all this complaining you still have a stock braking system and paid someone to fix your mistakes, sounds like you should lock your tool box.

 

[Bseg]

First of all I don't consider any work that I have done as a mistake. The problems I have, if you read the posts are not due to anything I've done wrong, there is obviously something wrong with the braking system ie; the smaller rear wheel cylinders.



I've looked into the expensive EGR brakes and talked to a lot of people who work on brakes and the conclusion is that the stock brakes should do the job. Especially since I'm not towing a huge load. $50 every 6 months for pads = $100 per year, how many years to pay off the EGR setup? I don't plan on this truck being around for the rest of my life.



So far after running these new brakes for 1000 + miles the wear on the pads has been fairly even. If I can get them to last 28K miles like they used to it will be much more cost effective to change the pads out at 28k as opposed to spending $1000 on a whole new system. That $1000 goes a long ways towards other improvements.



P. S. The tool box isn't locked, only the checkbook!

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I didn't see you mention manually adjusting the rear brakes (which someone mentioned above but you might have missed). I manually adjust my rear brakes every oil change. I have an exhaust brake that I use all the time which will obviously increase my pad life but I'm getting 60,000 miles on a set of front pads. Adjusting the rear brakes manually is critical to long front pad life - the self adjusters simply don't work. Also, someone recommended performance friction pads from autozone which is what I run and they have a lifetime warranty on them - exchange them no question.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Steve even if Autozone did not install the pads? SWEET!

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I didn't know Autozone did installs. But yeah, lifetime exchange. I bought a 2nd set of them since my truck is my primary transportation and it's 30 miles to the autozone. I took the worn out ones in, handed them to em, and they handed me a brand new set - which are sitting on the shelf for when I need em.

 

[Bseg]

Steve, I have adjusted the rears several times and when I had the larger cylinders installed I asked the mechanic if he thought they were adjusted correctly and he said that they were how they should be.



Regarding Auto Zone I'm not sure there is one near where I live, I do know of one about 2 hours away from me. What is interesting is I used to buy pads and shoes at Kragens which is a similar franchise type store and at first they would exchange the worn out pads or shoes with new ones. After a few years they changed their policy and said they would only replace them if they wore out because of a defect but no for normal wear and tear. I will have to check out Auto Zone cause if they will honor that it may be worth the drive.



I've heard people say that Midas has a similar deal where they will replace them as long as you own the car or truck. I assume they will charge labor for removal and replacement plus they will want to turn the rotors and drums so they probably make their money back that way.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Keep in mind that on our trucks the rotors have to be turned ON the truck. Most people aren't aware of that (including many shops). Also, unless you've grooved your rotors I don't feel that there is any need to turn them. I've replaced my pads twice and have never turned my rotors and the brakes work great (150k on the truck now). I replace my pads well before they are worn out so that I don't ever get into that situation - replace them early IMO. I takes me all of 45 minutes to change out my pads, lube the calipers, etc. JMHO

 

[Bseg]

Steve, you have two advantages over me, exhaust brake and a manual trani. Getting an E brake is something I would like to do eventually but I don't know how long I will keep this truck for. The new 325 h. p. would be real nice to have! Plus it would be a manual and I would put a E brake on it for sure.



I'll be happy when I can these back to lasting close to 30k miles. Even if I don't get free pads in exchange $50 for a set isn't too bad.

 

[Bseg]

Steve,



Regarding turning the rotors on the truck, I found a couple of shops that have the jig to turn them off the truck. In fact the last time they didn't even have to take the rotor off the hub cause they had some jig that adapts the whole thing.



I agree about only turning them when they have grooves, that has always been the way I've done mine and I've never had a problem with that.



The only time I turned a rotor that didn't appear to need it was when they were new cause I was told that they could warp during storage. I actually had a new set of brake drums that I put on a car one time and the car had a terrible vibration during braking, turned out that they needed to be turned and once I did that the problem went away.