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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) broken burned clutch disc

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Finished head

Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 1998 factory service manual

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I have a broken and fried clutch disc in need of replacing. i was pulling moderately heavy up a mountain Canyon last night and started lugging so I tried to downshift from 5th to 4th and missed it. I found 3rd after a few seconds and then back up to 4th but when I did it started to slip pretty bad and the pedal felt real hard and didn't go all the way down. The RPM's didn't increase too bad but it just felt wrong. Anyway, I climbed the rest of the canyon in 5th with no problems and stopped at the top and heard a sound at idle and smelled burned clutch. I had my father in law meet me and pulled the trailer home and I drove empty with no problems except for the hard pedal and awful smell.
Anyway, hopefully you can see ion the pic the broken spots around the splines on the disc. (I'm guessing this is where the hard pedal and lack of travel length came from) The friction material is TOAST also. My question is: what do you suppose caused the broken disc and fried clutch? It is a LuK OEM replacement with new throwout, pilot, etc about 20-25k ago. I was not pulling any heavier or harder than I ever have before and have been up and down Logan Canyon many times.
I have a mild tuner (look at signature line - have never been on a dyno though) and need this replaced asap but don't want a repeat in another 20k miles.

Thoughts?

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Well, I replaced this Luk with another one from Napa along with pilot, and throwout. I roughed up the flywheel and reused it. We'll see how this lasts. I have a 1 yr or 12k warranty from Napa.........
 
I can feel vibration through my pedal now and if I rev the engine it gets worse. The pedal itself is a lot softer and the engage/disengage seems really close to the floor. (That may be normal.....funny how 2 days time can totally skew your memory on things like this.)

Anyway, I don't think the vibration is normal.....
 
I am not sure what you are talking about on your clutch disk being broken, I can't see anything wrong in the picture. After the death of the friction, I would guess your flywheel is damaged.

As far as burning the clutch (sorry, being blunt here) you did it with your up shift on a hill with a load. When you went from 3rd to 4th you knew you had to shift fast or you would bog so you didn't give the clutch time to hook up and hit the go peddle as you were letting up on the clutch. I am sure you are a good driver as a general rule but the missed shift caused you to get flustered so the bum shifting continued. It's kind of a natural thing, I have shifted lousy a few times too, usually when I am kinda day dreaming.

Nick
 
The picture isn't real good - the splined portion that sits around the input shaft is broken in one spot, and the stamped metal around that splined portion that is a part of the clutch disc is also cracked in a few spots. I'll try to post more pics later to show exactly what I'm talking about.

As far as being flustered and shifting, I was. I just didn't know it was possible to completely fry a good clutch in a few short seconds. I'm thinking that maybe with the missed shifts I broke the clutch disc splines and the metal around it which allowed the disc itself to flex and slip and burn out with the rest of the 25 or so miles I had to drive?
 
I have about 100 miles on the new clutch (mostly hwy but with many stop lights/signs) and it feels alot better. I plan to go test it with my heavy trailer after 200 miles or so. The vibration is gone and dis-engagement seems to not be so close to the floor. Maybe this is true and maybe my overactive mind is playing games with me?
 
Good pictures, I see what you are talking about, thats ugly. I really doubt shifting had anything to do with that, more like an alignment issue but I am not sure how it could be off that bad. Are the splines good on the input shaft?

Nick
 
Can we see the splines from the trans side please? Similar zoom level to the last shots. Those cracks in the drive plate, nothing that I can figure out puts a thrust load on that area, damage there is quite uncommon.

Also can you snap a pic of the stop pins from the edge of the damper. These are the rivets that hold the damper together, looking to see if the sides of the rivets show impact damage from the hub drive flange.

The drive plate that you took the picture of is basically flat from the hub pilot to the lining spring rivet holes. Your's flat, or slightly bowed out? I'm seeing that the hub spring that should be located in the 4 notches is out of position.
 
The drive plate that you took the picture of is basically flat from the hub pilot to the lining spring rivet holes. Your's flat, or slightly bowed out? I'm seeing that the hub spring that should be located in the 4 notches is out of position.

Good eye Gary, now that you brought it to my attention, it appears the splined hub is flush with the disk and the out of position hub is turned to the coast/retard direction?? On my old disk the splined hub sticks above the disk plate about an 1/8" or so. If thats the case, then the OP's disk is bulging/being pushed apart by the out of place hub but I don't know why.

Nick
 
WC,

It looks pretty clear that the trans was forced into the disc. Look at the extra, small tooth imprints in the leading edges of the teeth. The force used to push the trans into place created the input shaft spline imprints in the disc hub, pushed on the F/W side drive plate cracking and distorting it, dislodging the hub damper plate as evidenced by the spring location tabs not being centered in the 4 notches in the drive plate and one of two possible things might have cracked the hub itself. Either the force used to pull the trans into the disc was enough to cause the crack OR the trans was hung partially in the disc and the weight of the trans cracked the hub.

I have a small collection of "warranty" discs at work that have had their trans pulled in with enough force to do the same damage as you have. I wasn't there to see the install, but one possible tool that does it is longer bolts being used to PULL the trans into position, it means trouble no matter how you slice it. Discs must be centered with the alignment tool and the trans must be carefully guided into position with skill and patience. One thing we do in an install is to try to rotate the trans output shaft (in gear) while getting the trans started in the teeth. Also, it varies with skill level and experience and luck but many times I pull the X-fer case off and just stab the trans alone, makes a smaller easier to handle package. I stress reading the "gap" between the back of the engine and front face of the trans and actually sighting down the trans case holes to find the mating holes in the engine adapter.

The stop pins are the double headed rivets that secure the damper package. They are visible from the edge of the damper and the hub flange rotation is limited as its notches hit the stop pins. IF the stop pins are beat up, the engine had a lot more torque than the damper had spring rate to keep the flanges from hitting the pins. If the pins show no wear or witness marks, then the damper had a higher torque capacity than the torque that it saw. But if the damper had been severely damaged from running off center due to an alignment issue, the damper can't float its always loaded and the stop pins see more wear.

If this clutch did not slip under load (prior to current failed state) on a good uphill pull with a load, then the system had more torque capacity than the engine had torque. The resulting facing wear is then most likely resulting from driver actions OR contamination at assy from not cleaning all of the casting surfaces, BUT I think that would have showed up a lot sooner.

No matter who's clutch a major amount of the success of the clutch is in the attention to detail during install and the skill and experience of the installer. Also my comments were solely based on the pictures submitted, not a hands on inspection.

WC, want to check one other installation detail? Take a look at the old release bearing collar bore, is the bore of the collar nicely greased, or dry and nasty?

Gary
 
The release bearing was greased. I own up to all of the above. When I installed the last clutch I was impatient and forced it in place. Expensive lesson learned. This time around I had a better jack and more time (and prayed more) and it slid in with no force.
 
WC,

I think you're the 1st guy I've explained this too that fessed up. Takes a straight shooter to admit a boo boo. This is from a Dakota from our installer's hall of shame collection, look at the fingerprint imprint from the input shaft, even shows the tool marks. This shop also used anti-seize on the splines as lube, big no no again. Use about 1 gm of hi temp wheel bearing grease for spline lube. Also lets make a point that everyone should check every disc on the input shaft before installation, easier to fix it with a phone call to the supplier.

Best regards,

Gary

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