Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) building a 12valve for performance

[BAnsley]

I am building a 12v for performance with light towing occasionaly15,000 max.

The motor is a 94 stock,the head is o ringed,ported and performance valve grinds,hd springs for 4,000 rpm gov. custom ground cam. Iam getting ready to take the bottom end to the machine shop for balanced bottom end with fluiddampner,bored. Here is the catch I have new 370 injectors, should I get new marine pistons to match or get new injectors and keep the stock piston configuration. Just getting a feel for what people have to say about their setup and see what they would have done different?I have a 215 pump with the largest hp fuel plate #12 I think can't remember,4gsk kit, lazer cut delivery valves,and a new overflow valve. Plan on running Industrial injections silver bullett with a ats exhaust manifold.

 

[bmoeller]

Actually, you have the smallest plate. Larger the number on the plate, the less power. A #0 or #100 (cross between a 0 and 10 plates) would be the "biggest".



A 100 plate is like a #10 on the bottom, and like a #0 on the top.



http://piersdiesel.com/CamPlate.htm



IIRC, Jim Fulmer was making 800hp with the 370s. So, if you are replacing the pistons anyways, I might stick the marine pistons in to go with the 370s. Otherwise, I'd probably get some EDM or extrude honed injectors that are like the DDP stage 4's I have. Hear they are good for up to 1000hp.



Other than that, the setup sounds pretty good to me.

 

[zstroken]

Nothing against the Silver Bullet, but I don't think you will like that towing with the 12V. The SB works well on the 24V and the HPCR. I run the SB on my 12V and it is kind of laggy. I had a 68/14 sledpuller (or phat shaft 66/14) on my 12V and it was the best streeting charger I have had on the truck to date. I have had an HTT prostreet 66 and the silver bullet. The latter two will move some air on top, but I thought the bottom end performance was lack luster.

http://video.thedieselgarage.com/search/dan+barmes/0/b400d0d8-7667-45e1-b3b9-983200c50a7f.htm

there is a video with the prostreet 66 granted I was running a super tight convertor.

 

[wildmanben]

So basically what you're saying is that towing with a 66mm is a bad idea? Or is there a 66mm that isnt so doggy that can be towed with. I am thinking about upgrading already but towing is holding me back...

 

[zstroken]

For towing I would look at the 62 size chargers. The issue you get with a fast spooling 66 is surging. Not saying it can't be done, some truck setups are happy with it, some aren't. Do you tow much with your 64/14?? How does it work? I had a HTB2 62/12 on my 01. 5 ho with a set of 130 hp injectors and an edge comp. Worked pretty well, but spool could have happened about 200 rpm sooner and I would have loved the combo.

 

[MGarland]

I tow with the same 62/12 that Zstroken had on his truck and it works great. Sometimes the poor old truck weighs around 24k and it is still easy to get the charger lit.

Mark

 

[wildmanben]

The 64 works great for towing in my opinion. It seems to spool better when loaded thatn unloaded. I like it and it keeps cool. Going to tow 21K this weekend so we will see how that goes... But you dont think that a Silver Bullet or a Pro Street would work well for towing at all?

 

[EHarvey]

Nothing against the Silver Bullet, but I don't think you will like that towing with the 12V. The SB works well on the 24V and the HPCR. I run the SB on my 12V and it is kind of laggy. I had a 68/14 sledpuller (or phat shaft 66/14) on my 12V and it was the best streeting charger I have had on the truck to date. I have had an HTT prostreet 66 and the silver bullet. The latter two will move some air on top, but I thought the bottom end performance was lack luster.

http://video.thedieselgarage.com/search/dan+barmes/0/b400d0d8-7667-45e1-b3b9-983200c50a7f.htm

there is a video with the prostreet 66 granted I was running a super tight convertor.

now i had the complete opposite results ,, i ran a sps66 and found it to be more laggy than my silver bullet . I called shane at II and he told me the silver bulllet would spool much quicker than the sps66 because it had one extra fin on the turbine wheel. I believe it has 13 and the sps66 has 12. I took his advice and he was right it definitely spools much quicker. But like all 12vs need some cam work done to help spool them up .

 

[wildmanben]

So would the Silver Bullet be really laggy w/o a cam?

 

[zstroken]

I think my 68/14 spooled at a lower RPM. I am not saying spooled faster, once the SB lights it is gone, but it happens maybe 200 rpm higher than the 68/14 did. Granted though I had a super tight Goerend convertor. If I put the thing in gear 1250rpm is all I could get until I built some boost. 2000 rpm in 4low and it was pretty much stalled out.

 

[wildmanben]

I would assume with my 5sp that would be a lot different though right?

 

[zstroken]

As long as you kept the charger above say 1800 or so I would think you would be fine.

 

[BAnsley]

My truck is a 6speed in a 86 k30 chevy and do very little towing mainly truck pulling in the summer and daily driver,so I could swing a silver bullett for light towing. just making shure I'm not shooting my self in the foot going with the marine piston/injector setup when there is something much better I could do now. Thanks for the info guys, Brian

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I developed the #10 and 0 and worked with TST on developing the 12 and 11. I made one #100 and I guess Forrest is copying it for others. Regarding your piston choice, the 370 pistons will cut your compression too much for street use in cold weather. You will get a white smoke trail until it finally warms up. I made 800 hp with a stock short block. You can make a few improvements to it, like the later connecting rods with cracked caps, but it will hold up pretty well even stock. The Dodge version piston bowls may not be ideal, but they work OK and compression is decent. I used the . 020" thicker stock head gasket for about 16. 4 to 1.

 

[cuevas623]

When you are guys are talking chargers what does 68/14 mean I am new to the diesel scene. . is that the size of the charger and the number of the plate what??

 

[AFarmer]

Compressor wheel inducer measurement and exhaust housing size.

 

[Cooker]

A #0 or #100 (cross between a 0 and 10 plates) would be the "biggest".

Joe, please correct me if I am wrong here, but isn't the #4 bigger (if we are measuring size by the possible amount of rack travel) than a #0?



As I understand if the #4 is cut deeper and will allow for more maximum rack travel than a #0. With that said, it is well know that more rack travel is not always better as there seems to be a sweet spot for maximum fueling and HP.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I designed the zero to be the richest across the rocker heights. I don't know about the copies people are making. Some of the 4s are richer at one point only, but the zero can be made richer than what gives best power anyway, by moving it forward.