Building a shop need advice

[SMorneau]

I am planning to build a shop this year. Size will be about 32 x40 or a little bigger. It will be a pole barn like structure with a heated floor and a 2-post lift.



I would be interested in feedback on overhead door heights (12 or 14?) and layouts that minimize the number of overhead doors (so I can afford to heat it during a typical MN winter). Anything any of you have learned that will help me build a nicer shop would be appreciated.



Here is what I do know:



In floor heat via plastic pipe and boiler.

Minimum 12' door height for overhead doors.

2 overhead doors would be nice because I could screen one adjacent to storage for summer time and still have vehicle access.

Lighting will have to be good for me to see my work.

I will store my slide in camper and a car in there at least in the winter.

There will have to be a lift (I'm getting too old to be crawling around).

At least one service entry door at least 3 ft wide.

 

[CumminsAholic]

If the whole thing is going to be heated and finished scratch the poles and stick build it. It'd come out to be the same cost if it's finished and it'd be a lot nicer. You could go with rafters on 4' centers and then put whiter liner tin on the ceiling to brighten it up and blow your insulation on top of that. Glad to see you're having a heated floor, that's a must up here. Put as tall and wide of doors in it as you can, ya never know what you may need to fit in there down the road. Also make it as big as you can because you'll never have enough room. It's pretty cheap to buy an extra rafter or two and some more studs and gain a few feet when you're building it, a lot more to add on later. Good luck



Corey

 

[tpruitt]

I am getting ready to build a shop as well. What i am thinking is a 40x32 building as well but it will have 2 floors. Up top will be an apartment that we will live in until we have the money to build a house. Underneath will by my shop will all the goodies. I am just now starting to plan it so hopefully i will get some good info on this topic. There was a guy here who had some pictures of his shop but i cant find them.



Trey

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

High entry doors - LOTS of electrical outlets - at least a couple strategically located on pull-downs for ease of use - same with primary air line runs for air tools, good provision for welding and torches - as many windows or skylight panels as you can use with heating/cooling in mind for maximum lighting - amd make DERN sure that 2-post lift has LOTS of capacity and stability to properly handle that Dodge when wrenching under it!



One or more VERY strong overhead beams for chain-hoist engine pulling...

 

[Hohn]

What Gary said... . Oh, and 220V is your friend... make sure you have a lot of 220 drops with 40amps or more. Also, don't skimp on the air compressor. Two stage 80 gallon is probably a minimum.



Check out Northern Tool's house brand compressors-- lots of features for the money. They are the North Star brand.



Justin

 

[JR2]

No one mentioned a floor drain yet or water supply so you can wash your cars inside in the winter. Make it as big as you can afford. Like others have said, lots of outlets, lots of air hookups, lots of light. An overhead hoist would be nice. Lots of ventlation if your going to weld or run the cars in the shop at all.



I have always wanted a oil change pit, but with a lift you will have that covered.





How about a bathroom with a urinal





or a bathroom with a urinal in it.

 

[Spooled-up]

How about a bathroom with a urinal

I've always wanted one for my shop. Someday when I build one it WILL have one. Kind of makes it a place for a man only.



In the room above the shop, there will be a big round hole cut in the floor through which will pass a Fire Pole so I can make it down to the shop in a hurry for those emergency repairs.



Don't forget about a refrigerator. You always need refreshment when working in the shop. Gotta stay hydrated!



Gladiator garage works reefer.

 

[Andy Perreault]

You might want to check out this topic: Ultimate Shop

Andy

 

[Spooled-up]

Here's another good one:

The Garage People



You could eat off of those floors!

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

My garage is 40x40, 11'4" door ht. Cement floor, pole building. As it is right now, no heat, no electric... ... ... yet. If you can get all the $ to do it ALL now as if you wait, the building becomes less and less important. Someday I will finish it. Set it up as well for air as well as you can forsee where you will need it.

 

[SMorneau]

I am out in the country so a rear door makes for a pretty good urinal. Ok, I'll plant a couple of pine trees for modestys sake.



The shop will be located quite a ways from the drain field but I will leave a small open spot somewhere where I could drive a sandpoint. Plumbing will be low on the list.



A floor drain will be up there on the list.



I have had others suggest the cost will be about the same for stick built on slab but I have reservations about a floating slab. At least with a pole building the structure is on frost footings. Cement is so costly to have done I will not want to do full footings. Maybe I'm wrong on this??? More feedback from the northern states will be appreciated.



I think the pole building might lend itself to my pay as we go plan a little better than the stick built but again I may be wrong.



I will do the electric myself and will probably run a 150A 220v feed from the house. That should get me by just fine.



Both electric and Air drops galore!



I will have the floor reinforced where the lift bolts down and it will have to lift at least 10k to find its way into my shop.



I think a big wall unit AC will keep the shop usable in all but the hottest weather. So I will make sure I get a spot for one framed into the building.



I alway thought a traveling hoist would be nice but with a good floor a nice shop crane (cherry picker?) probably makes more sense for me.



I need to have at least a13'6" high door so I have to find out if I can do that with a 14' ceiling. I hate to go to a 16' ceiling because the of the extra cost.



I know decent lighting and heating is going to add up and I don't mind putting over 30k into the building but it will have to be over a few years. The importance of the building will not diminish. My vehicles always need an emergency room and I have no kids to siphon me dry all of the time so I can take a couple of years to build a shop I'll be happy with.





Of course I'll have a beer fridge. I only wished I could have gotten my grandfathers old International Harvester fridge so the Ford guys would feel at home when they come to visit. I already have a nice set of McIntosh tube amps for the tunes.





I'll check out the links, I appreciate the input. Keep it coming.



Scott

 

[QRTRHRS]

I would have those fiber strands added to the concrete mix. They are supposed to minimize the inevitable cracking. A friend plumbed a local business's floor for radiant. He said the concrete did not weather this winter very well but the heating system remains intact.



I ran a 13 ton vibratory roller over my site last year as we pushed it out. We did a few inches thickness at a time and made a good base. It made the builders hydraulic auger work for sure.



Anyway, when they did the 16x120x6" with wire slab on tamped 2b stone (no fibers), they did a continuous pour as I recall. Then, they used a saw to relieve the slab every 12 feet. Every section has a hairline crack right down the center parallel with the length of the barn. O'well.



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I suggest using a 24 inch backhoe bucket for your utility ditch. Grey PVC is cheap enough so run at least 2" for your power. Put the power on one side and run one or two pipes on the other for phone or whatever. My power company does not like a narrow ditch with the other utilities too close to their's. If you want to run water, go deeper but power tamp the backfill prior to the utility lines. I have seen 4" drain pipe put in for future installations too since it is so cheap, just don't crush it.

 

[Rotty]

Get a seperate 200A service to the shop.

Do the wiring yourself. Lots of 120/230 drops, you cant have enough.

Build a big ultra HD bench. You will need it.

Plumb for air.

Put in Lots of FLorescent liting. Like every 4' put a fixture and then wire each half to two differnt switchs, ie 1/2 light, full light.

I did this and everybody though I was crazy until they have to work at night on something and we flip on all of the lights. You do not need a trouble like to light up something under the hood.

Paint the walls white, it reflect the light better.



I personnaly like stick built with full insulation 6" walls.

Put in a bathroom with utility sink and toilet. Your spouse will love you and it also make a great dog house when your in it. :-{}

Some type of heat. I just went through a MN winter. You will need heat at least to something like to 40-50 degrees to do any work on you vehicles. Maybe even run a Natural gas line to it.

10-12' wide with 12-14' high doors. Think like you are going to drive a big motorhome inside. you will appreciate the room.

Look into used pallet rack for shelving, it is absolutle HD and you can get it in any reasonable height with 2,3,4' depths. Plan a whole wall for shelving. It will fill up in no time.

Make the building as big as you can afford, even if you don't finish it off. again It will fill up in no time.



Plan for a stereo system/fridge, It make working out in the shop a whole lite nicer.



Name the shop, so no one will get confused where you stuff is at.

i. e. the house garage is definatly differnet for the "big garage/shop".

Otherwise good luck.

been there, done that, and still learning.

 

[krs]

Decide if you might want to do painting. You can use a temporary spray booth made of framed plastic sheet panels but you'll do yourself a BIG favor if you plan to have full lighting available in the booth. Running cords and long hoses into a paint booth sucks and makes a decent job a lot harder to do.



Figure out a strong dust vacuum system for the whole shop. It's unreal how quickly everything gets dirty.



Have a urinal at least. Sure there's trees outside but when it's cold or wet or both you'll have to coat up to go out here. It gets old having to keep putting on coats and taking them off again just to take a leak.



If you're going to have any large machine tools plan their locations thoroughly. They're a pain to move, level, and rewire for 3 phase, no matter how you get it.



Make the floor twice as thick as books say you need.



Have LOTS of shelving and cabinet storage. No matter how much you have it'll fill up. And set up a nuts and bolts storage and sorting area. Somehow I've got half a wall of Home Depot little plastic drawer sets full of stuff and was looking at where I'm gonna' put more today.



You did say "shop" right, and not "garage"?



Light, light, light! There's never enough.

 

[TPCDrafting]

1st have a local structural engineer dictate the construction and make up of the concrete for the slab. Also let them help you decide on the foundation based on local soil conditions.

Put 2" rigid insulation under the slab so your heat all goes up. The thermal mass will hold longer if you do.

 

[SMorneau]

More good input. Wish I had more $$$.



As far as coating up to take a leak... toughen up and learn to leak faster. Seriously, Plumbing in any kind of legal urinal would cost me too much. You might say, I'd be ******* my money away.



I am pretty sure I am going to go with a pole barn. There are several good contractors in the area that specialize in them. I looked at a nice one in progress yesterday.



150A will be enough and I don't the benefit of going to a separate service for the shop. I don't see any machine tools in my future. The shop will be used mainly for working on cars. Engine swaps, transmission swaps, some component and engine rebuilds, ATV repair and only occasional small paint jobs. I know I will need lots of storage and a good way to organize hardware.



Tunes, beer, a few nice chairs to sit in and socialize. Good lights are a must and it seems Florescents are being touted as the way to go.



I envision the shop will look like a very well equiped service station from days gone by. A place where I can do different things I cannot do comfortably now.



Keep it coming...

 

[CumminsAholic]

If you do go with poles, make sure the rafters are notched into the poles and not just nailed to the sides, I've seen a lot of buildings collapse from snow because of not being notched in. You'd think with tin on the roof you wouldn't have to worry, but ya do. Morton builds a pretty good polebarn and I think they'd be in your area. If you have the $ for concrete I'd do the floating slab though. We put up a 44x100 3 and a half years ago and haven't had any problems with it, it heats super easy with an electric boiler (use tyvek or and equivelent on the outside... even though it'll only be a pole barn it'll make a huge difference in heating and cooling costs) It would probably be easier to pay as you go with the poles though. Run a pipe from your breaker box up into the attic in case you ever want to add a piece of equiptment somewhere where you don't have enough juice.

Corey

 

[SMorneau]

You lost me. Tyvek on a metal pole barn?



I plan to do all of electic conduit on the inside of the walls. Except maybe the lights. Conduit isn't that expensive but I am looking to cut cost anywhere it won't matter.



Morton is super spendy for a pole barn. I'm sure they are good. I will make sure the trusses are properly fastened.

 

[SGibson]

Roll up doors are neat, the don't block lights or cut into O/H space, the only way to keep concrete from cracking is to leave it on the truck. I would do a footing 30" min. and not a monolithic pour but one w/joints be it cracker or board.

 

[Jeff H]

I love my ol man's shed. But a little small inside.

Slope the floors just a little. Hopefully your ground is settled enough so that it does not heave or settle in the wrong direction.

Good concrete floor especially if its gonna be floor heated. Fiberglass added to the concrete is tough stuff. Last thing you need is for the floor to crack so bad that it screws up the floor heating.

In the work area of the shed. A steel ceiling works pretty good. Just use the steel panels that are used to encase the shed. Also is stronger and will hold the weight of blown in insulation. Also drywalling the inside will work. This helps reduce fire danger. Since I'm over there torch cutting or welding something quite a bit.

Just watch out for the avalanches after it snows. Especially when it warms up. Hale is a deffining experience. :--)