Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Building a Tow unit - need advise

[Forsberg]

I have a 99 2500 Quad cab with auto transmission. It only has 40K miles on what appears to be a bone stock 215 hp 5. 9 in it. The preious owner put Pyro, boost, fuel pressure, and transmission guages on it. I just put in 4:10 gears to better handle my 12K trailer. I'm not happy with the towing performance so far. The fuel economy is around 10. 5 under load at 70 MPH with little room in there to go up and down hills. I was expecting 12-14 on the hwy towing. I'm easy on the throttle. I'm concidering new injectors, either RV275 or Jammer 3, 4 inch exhaust, and a programmer (smarty or edge ez). I would like to balance power with cost as well. Any advise from the 5th wheel haulers out there would be appreciated.



G Forsberg

 

[GCULP]

sounds like you're on the right track, anything more radical and you'll want to keep a close eye on the transmission.

 

[MHagen]

Id go with a smarty and a set of rv275s. The jammer3s with the smarty run a little hot on the egts. Im either going back to the 275s or upgrading my turbo. I had an ez but for towing the smarty is waaaay better. If you decide you want an EZ PM me.



Mike

 

[Cummins724]

My brother runs RV275 & Smarty... . awesome towing setup, but a utomatic may not hold up to the Smarty on higher settings when towing for long.

 

[SnoKing]

Here is what I did. 4" SS Magnaflow exhaust (noise is low and no drone), BHAF, drove to DTT in Canada and had them build custom auto for towing with billet input and 2 gear cage, they install DTT smart controller, Jammer 1 injectors, and comp without tapping the pump, installed Banks 4" exhaust brake with Banks down pipe and intermediate (would have been better to address exhaust only once, but the Magnaflow muffler is good), installed Geno's Vulcan relocation kit for LP, installed DSS and 3rd gen track bar. Swapped HY35 to PDR35-12W, but have to tow yet. I had more power than the HY would cool.



I put the power for the Banks Exhaust brake and DTT smart controller on an old style headlight switch on the floor for operation with left foot. This is handy for getting in and out of 2nd gear lockup without a very hard 2nd to 3rd lock to lock up shift.



Last fall we did a 4200 mile trip thru the Western States, only issue was the EGT that I hopefully have addressed with the PDR35. I tow a 29' Cardinal that weights 11-12K. I got 12. 5 MPG on the trip, with around 1K of those miles site seeing bobtail. Towing fillups ranged from 11. 5 up, and a lot of the bobtail miles where not highway type miles.



I love the Banks Exhaust brake, long straight 6 percent downhills are fine in OD at 55MPH on the exhaust brake. Windy 6 percents I go down in 3rd, and have to come off the brake from time to time to keep speed up. 8 percent windy downhills where handled in 2nd lockup without service brakes.



In the hot SW weather I started having hard starting issues, and two months ago I got dead pedal twice and a 216 code, so I have a new MWFI VP and with the PDR35 I think I have more that the 283HP/596 torque that I dyno'd two years ago. The Jammer 1's are very clean!!!!! If I want more power, I can always tap the pump. I leave the comp on sublevel 3 99. 99 percent of the time, which brings the fueling on similar to stock.



Truck is very drivable and tows really nicely at 63 MPH/2000RPM, and seldom has to come out of OD on normal freeway driving. I was pushing 19K on the trip last fall.



Would I do anything different a second time around:



1. Exhaust only once.

2. Would install the injectors myself



Things that you would have to fight me for:



1. 4:10 gears - Best of Auto towing

2. Exhaust Brake

3. DTT transmission

4. DW who let me hand Stefan a handful of money



This fall we are doing a larger loop thru the Western States and taking in the Balloom Fest in NM. That should test the new turbo well.



Picture of Banks Brake, BHAF, Outerwears and Larry-B heat shield. http://mysite.verizon.net/res6pseo/id15.html



SNOKING

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

G Forsberg,

Welcome to TDR and great first post!!!

You are absolutely on the right track mod wise although expecting 14 mpg is not realistic: Smarty and injectors, either RV275's or Mach 1. 6's; Jammer 3's are too big. The Smarty I would run on SW#3 with your stock transmission. Don't waste your money on the exhaust system, not needed at your level of play. Instead, go for the AFE Stage 1 or Stage 2 intake which will help keep egt's down. As money is available I would then look at a transmission valve body & torque converter upgrade along with a transmission controller so you can install an exhaust brake. This will prolong the life of the transmission, the truck will perform so much better on starts and stops, and your brakes will last a lot longer. Not to mention that the exhaust brake is a huge safety feature and might prevent changing underwear unnecessarily.

Recap:
1. Smarty
2. Injectors
3. Air box upgrade
4. Valve body
5. Torque converter
6. transmission controller
7. Exhaust brake

On edit, when your lift pump goes bad install AirDog, PM me for dealer contact.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[SnoKing]

One note, if you are towing at 70MPH with 4:10's, you are not going to get good mileage. 24V sweet spot is at 2000 RPMs. That is too fast for safety at 19-20K combine weight also in my book. SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

G Forsberg,



Welcome to TDR and great first post!!!



You are absolutely on the right track mod wise although expecting 14 mpg is not realistic: Smarty and injectors, either RV275's or Mach 1. 6's; Jammer 3's are too big. The Smarty I would run on SW#3 with your stock transmission. Don't waste your money on the exhaust system, not needed at your level of play. Instead, go for the AFE Stage 1 or Stage 2 intake which will help keep egt's down. As money is available I would then look at a transmission valve body & torque converter upgrade along with a transmission controller so you can install an exhaust brake. This will prolong the life of the transmission, the truck will perform so much better on starts and stops, and your brakes will last a lot longer. Not to mention that the exhaust brake is a huge safety feature and might prevent changing underwear unnecessarily.



Recap:

1. Smarty

2. Injectors

3. Air box upgrade

4. Valve body

5. Torque converter

6. transmission controller

7. Exhaust brake



On edit, when your lift pump goes bad install AirDog, PM me for dealer contact.



Godspeed,

Trent

Regarding the transmission work. I had around only 30,000 miles on my transmission when I handed the keys to Stefan at DTT. Each time you RNR the transmission, you are looking at 500 bucks. So, I did it once and did it right the first time. In my book there is more to building a good transmission than a torque converter and valve body. Go to the DTT web site and read some of the info they have posted there. JMHO.



SNOKING

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

SNOKING,

Good point & agreed. If the $$ are available the best route is the whole shebang. If not, then upgrading will prolong life.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[DCreed]

some good advice around here ! Mhagen ive got near your setup but went ht57/12 no egt over 1150 EVER. Forsberg , id do trans first especially tc as u will need to for reliability and also to help mpg ,then address lift pump ,air filter,injectors(mild),4"exhaust w/brake,smarty in that order if it cant be done at once . and yes unfortunatly 1900 is the 24's sweet spot so if fuel is an issue stay off the go pedal. :{ keep on truckin'!!

 

[Babyfat]

One note, if you are towing at 70MPH with 4:10's, you are not going to get good mileage. 24V sweet spot is at 2000 RPMs. That is too fast for safety at 19-20K combine weight also in my book. SNOKING

I have to agree on this one

 

[Forsberg]

Thanks for all of the info... keep it coming! I really want to do this build in the right order and right the first time around. I almost feel bad about the 4:10's for mileage, but I felt that would put me into the GVWR of the truck properly. I did some testing (I test F16's and A10's for the Air Force) on mileage and noticed a large drop in fuel mileage if I went above 2000 rpm. , but some of that was due to the turbo boost. When I tow, my transmission temp never goes above 150 degrees even under full throttle (good) I tend to watch my guages closely when towing. I do have a MAGTEC pan installed on the transmission as well as a MAGTEC diff cover. These were installed prior to me owning the truck. If I address power first, and watch guages well, what is the best bang for the buck upgrade to address mileage of the truck? Injectors, programmer, lockup controler, intake (you get the picture). Help me build a GREAT towing vehicle.



Forsberg (Buzzsaw)

 

[SnoKing]

Thanks for all of the info... keep it coming! I really want to do this build in the right order and right the first time around. I almost feel bad about the 4:10's for mileage, but I felt that would put me into the GVWR of the truck properly. I did some testing (I test F16's and A10's for the Air Force) on mileage and noticed a large drop in fuel mileage if I went above 2000 rpm. , but some of that was due to the turbo boost. When I tow, my transmission temp never goes above 150 degrees even under full throttle (good) I tend to watch my guages closely when towing. I do have a MAGTEC pan installed on the transmission as well as a MAGTEC diff cover. These were installed prior to me owning the truck. If I address power first, and watch guages well, what is the best bang for the buck upgrade to address mileage of the truck? Injectors, programmer, lockup controler, intake (you get the picture). Help me build a GREAT towing vehicle.



Forsberg (Buzzsaw)

Slow down, it does not cost anything. If you want to drive 70, put the 3. 54's back in it. You said it yourself, as you go above 2000RPMs mileage comes down fast. SNOKING

 

[DavidC]

One point. Since it is a 99 I would look for the # 53 on the block. If you go above stock almost certain a new block would be in your future.



Dave

 

[Detroitiron]

a good start..

Thanks for all of the info... keep it coming! I really want to do this build in the right order and right the first time around. I almost feel bad about the 4:10's for mileage, but I felt that would put me into the GVWR of the truck properly. I did some testing (I test F16's and A10's for the Air Force) on mileage and noticed a large drop in fuel mileage if I went above 2000 rpm. , but some of that was due to the turbo boost. When I tow, my transmission temp never goes above 150 degrees even under full throttle (good) I tend to watch my guages closely when towing. I do have a MAGTEC pan installed on the transmission as well as a MAGTEC diff cover. These were installed prior to me owning the truck. If I address power first, and watch guages well, what is the best bang for the buck upgrade to address mileage of the truck? Injectors, programmer, lockup controler, intake (you get the picture). Help me build a GREAT towing vehicle.



Forsberg (Buzzsaw)

When I started towing 13k 5ers from Indiana to places like Vermont, Delaware, etc. , my '01 QC was bone stock, a 47RE w/ 3. 55 gearset. . I put on the 4" exhaust and aFe Pro 7 intake and mileage went from 10. 5 to 13 when towing. I have seen over 22 mpg empty, tailgate at home and cruise locked on 70 mph. Over time those mods paid for themselves. One thing I would make a priority, is an exhaust brake. I smoked my nearly-new-at-the-time service brakes on only one short but very steep grade in SW Pennsylvania. They glazed and from then on, until I could make it home, stopping even without a 5er on the back required a bit of forethought and pre-planning.



Establish a baseline, so you can tell from reliable data if your upgrades actually help or you just assume they do because they cost so much money. Nothing for these trucks is 'cheap'. It's your money. My advice is, keep your mods on the conservative side, don't buy an upgrade just because lots of guys are using it... read their sigs here... there are those among us that are driving a diesel powered Viper, and that is fine, but it's not what you would normally want for a good, reliable, relatively economical to operate, tow vehicle.



I cannot emphasize enough the exhaust brake. I won't make a recommendation, mine is in my sig and I chose it for reasons that are logical and make sense to me. But I refrain from telling or advising you how to spend your money.



One more thing... I have a Superchips, and it will be replaced with a Smarty, when the budget allows.



good luck and best wishes, and welcome to the Cummins Turbo Diesel fraternity



Dave Oo.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Buzzsaw,

My experience pulling campers all over the country says Smarty first, then injectors. Smarty and its predecessor Catcher were not available when I first started delivering campers so I installed RV275's which definitely helped on power and fuel mileage. Then came Catcher and eventually Smarty. If I were to start over, Smarty first hands down. With Smarty you can go back to stock in 2 minutes if you choose, with injectors 2 hours.

Ditto what Detroitiron says about exhaust brake.

If you do have a #53 block I wouldn't worry about it. Many highly modded #53's have never developed issues.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[SnoKing]

Regarding the exhaust brake and an automatic transmission. You need some sort of a controller to keep the torque converter locked, which creates lock to lock shifts, so to be safe you need billet input and second gear cage to assure that you do not break a shaft or transmission parts. Bill at DTT said the output shaft is kinda optional and easy to change if it breaks. So their you go, doing it correctly requires a complete custom transmission.



If you look back at the second thing I said I would not give up, it was the exhaust brake.



Regarding the Smarty and auto's read some of the other post going on and ask the transmission guys like Bill about that. SNOKING

 

[Detroitiron]

ok, I wasn't going to get into this, but...

Regarding the exhaust brake and an automatic transmission. You need some sort of a controller to keep the torque converter locked, which creates lock to lock shifts, so to be safe you need billet input and second gear cage to assure that you do not break a shaft or transmission parts. Bill at DTT said the output shaft is kinda optional and easy to change if it breaks. So their you go, doing it correctly requires a complete custom transmission.



If you look back at the second thing I said I would not give up, it was the exhaust brake.



Regarding the Smarty and auto's read some of the other post going on and ask the transmission guys like Bill about that. SNOKING

I am using the US Gear unit because it does not require a controller, thereby eliminating another potential glitch when one mfr's electronic gizmo is not entirely compatible with another mfr's gizmo... sometimes they just don't want to 'play nice'... the US Gear unit is a bit different than most, check it out... and it doesn't hang 15-20 lbs right on the end of the exhaust manifold, that's got to help reduce potential of stress cracks, etc... it mounts downstream, in the pipe between downpipe and muffler. .



cheers, Dave

 

[SnoKing]

I am using the US Gear unit because it does not require a controller, thereby eliminating another potential glitch when one mfr's electronic gizmo is not entirely compatible with another mfr's gizmo... sometimes they just don't want to 'play nice'... the US Gear unit is a bit different than most, check it out... and it doesn't hang 15-20 lbs right on the end of the exhaust manifold, that's got to help reduce potential of stress cracks, etc... it mounts downstream, in the pipe between downpipe and muffler. .



cheers, Dave

SO? Does it have its own smart controller to lock the torque converter??? SNOKING

 

[Detroitiron]

doesn't need a controller..

SO? Does it have its own smart controller to lock the torque converter??? SNOKING

Because it's designed to be effective at lower RPM. That's what I meant by the 'check it out' comment, there is info on the website that explains it better than I can. Anyway, when it's applied, the decrease in speed is immediate and substantial. Like throwing an anchor out of the bed, minus the noise of iron scraping on asphalt, of course. I did the research and liked the idea, as previously mentioned, of not having to add any more electronic gizmos into the mix. If you want the phone#, I'll pm it to you.



DaveOo.