Bully Torque Dog = slipping clutch

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

From talking with the programmers on this box, they feel that the high fuel pressures to make the bottem end punch are dangerous. Edge runs near 30,000 psi to get the 65 hp they claim. I really like the mildmanners of the box in the lower rpm's. It took some getting used to but it is great now. My truck never had a problem getting something moving. It was getting out of its own way... ... ... ... ... ...

 

[Swayse]

Decided not to go with the boost elbow, I like it better without. I like the way the power comes on with the box set on high, it comes on at 1500 rpms, love it. In the middle setting the power comes on at about 1900 rpms, I wish it came in around 1500 on that setting too. BTW, with the box on what I thought was off, it has more power than stock. I wonder how it will stack with the TST or the Edge Comp.



I was going to the strip on Saturday, but we found out that they ran on Friday, oops. Oh well, there is always next week.

 

[ntenna]

OK, thanks, guys, I'll try high and not put my foot in it so much. Assume you both are seeing about 26 boost on the mid setting?

 

[JTeague]

Aside from the slipping clutch, I am happy to report a solid 2 mpg better on the high setting. Strangely, It gets slightly less on the middle setting. Also I have managed to turn the check engine light on 2 times since the install. It was my fault both times. It seems to do it if I lug the engine at takeoff without touching the throttle and then quickly jumping on the throttle. Both times it set a MAP sensor and Crank sensor code. Still a great box IMHO.

 

[MattSt]

Originally posted by ntenna

OK, thanks, guys, I'll try high and not put my foot in it so much. Assume you both are seeing about 26 boost on the mid setting?

Yes. 26 on high also. And like JTeague I'm getting 2 mpg better than before. And I'm NOT driving like my grandma! Took a 200 mile trip this weekend and got 19 mpg, box on high. Before same trip I had been getting 15. 3.

 

[CATCRACKER]

good info guys keep it comin. you guys are the pioneers for power for the 03's. we will all be reading with a

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by JTeague

Aside from the slipping clutch, I am happy to report a solid 2 mpg better on the high setting. Strangely, It gets slightly less on the middle setting. Also I have managed to turn the check engine light on 2 times since the install. It was my fault both times. It seems to do it if I lug the engine at takeoff without touching the throttle and then quickly jumping on the throttle. Both times it set a MAP sensor and Crank sensor code. Still a great box IMHO.

Are you measureing fuel economy with the overhead computer? the higher the box setting, the more fuel gets delivered to the engine without the overhead computer knowing about it .





hmm. a box that doesn't do boost fooling correctly and confuses the ECM wrt crank speed?

 

[MattSt]

Originally posted by DLeno

Are you measuring fuel economy with the overhead computer? the higher the box setting, the more fuel gets delivered to the engine without the overhead computer knowing about it .

Mine was measured with a calculator. That was a very mixed tank of highway/city/towing thrown it. I will be keeping track of MPG and will be taking a few trips out of town both empty, half loaded (5000 #'s) and more loaded (14,000 #'s) and will report back in a new thread. Should be sometime in the next month.

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by Greg Boardman

From talking with the programmers on this box, they feel that the high fuel pressures to make the bottem end punch are dangerous. Edge runs near 30,000 psi to get the 65 hp they claim.

agreed on that one. Edge's and Diesel Dynamics new box is due next month with no pressure changes whatsoever (all timing and duration) and 100+ HP. Me, I'm nervous about any and all pressure changes -- I'd rather go with a pure timing and duration box like the Edge/DD, then add injectors. Just my opinion, but mucking with injector pressures is like piercing the VP44 pump wire on the 2nd gens -- recipe for reliability issues.



so I'm waiting for the new boxes from Edge and the DD version which will be optimized for injectors.

 

[ntenna]

So I knew the old Edge tried to raise fuel rail pressure, but the new Torque Dog does or does not raise rail pressure? It certainly does monitor it, as well as boost.



DLeno, you said, "hmm. a box that doesn't do boost fooling correctly and confuses the ECM wrt crank speed?"



What are you getting at about boost fooling correctly?



BTW, my box has not set any codes, so what am I doing different?

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by ntenna

So I knew the old Edge tried to raise fuel rail pressure, but the new Torque Dog does or does not raise rail pressure? It certainly does monitor it, as well as boost.

I is my understanding that the bullydog box does raise rail pressure on the higher settings. that is, it performs a combination of timing, duration, and pressure to obtain those impressive HP numbers. The Edge EZ, only the other hand, is pressure only and no timing or duration.

DLeno, you said, "hmm. a box that doesn't do boost fooling correctly and confuses the ECM wrt crank speed?"



What are you getting at about boost fooling correctly?



BTW, my box has not set any codes, so what am I doing different?

my comment was based on JTeague's post:

It seems to do it if I lug the engine at takeoff without touching the throttle and then quickly jumping on the throttle. Both times it set a MAP sensor and Crank sensor code.

MAP is manifold air pressure, and I infered here that the boost fooler was not behaving properly; otherwise the ECM would not be confused if it was being fooled properly into thinking that boost levels were within expected ranges. If I'm wrong about this, JTeague, correct me please.



the boost fooler's job is to tell the ECM that boost is some nice number, when in reality the extra fueling is producing more boost than the stock truck permits.



As for the crank sensor, I inferred here that the stock ECM is reading input from the crank sensor and making decisions about engine conditions. Again, if the ECM sees a measuremen that is not within expected values, it will set a code. I doubt that the bullydog box does anything to the crank position sensor, but if by experimentation we happen to know that the bullydog box does cause the crank sensor code to be set, then we have to wonder about how it is programmed and if it has correctly managed the instruction and other data timing on the bus.



So I don't know if you're doing anything different at all. your box might be newer or otherwise different, or your truck behaves slightly different. In any case, the marriage of box and truck is different

 

[ntenna]

10-4. On the Torque Dog, the unit picks up crank sensor, cam sensor, fuel rail and boost sensors.



Of course, the folks at Bully Dog are not about to describe specifically what they have done. In generalities, this box (which is only a week old) has only had one flaw for me, and that is that it has a noticeable RPM flare on the high setting after really putting your foot in it. Undoubtably related to the ECM trying to compensate for "over-fueling" related to emissions. Not a problem with what I would call reasonable acceleration, though.



Basically the unit is intended for minimum options. Go, go faster, and go like hell!



No codes so far. Who knows..... except for the fact that it is a dramatic change in power for sure.

 

[MattSt]

Originally posted by ntenna

Of course, the folks at Bully Dog are not about to describe specifically what they have done. In generalities, this box (which is only a week old) has only had one flaw for me, and that is that it has a noticeable RPM flare on the high setting after really putting your foot in it. Undoubtably related to the ECM trying to compensate for "over-fueling" related to emissions. Not a problem with what I would call reasonable acceleration, though.

What exactly do you mean by this? The only thing that I have noticed is that it's impossible to shift fast enough with this box. Even with the short throw kit in.

 

[ntenna]

Yeah, there's that, too!



What I mean is that you get the rpm flair even with dropping your foot in that "short" period you have to shift. Not enough time for the rpm's to drop=slipping clutch in no time.



So far mine hasn't, but I can tell I could waste it easily!

 

[Prairie Dog]

My truck does the flare thing and I dont even have the box (yet).

I hit it hard all the way up to 95 or so and when I lifted my foot, it kept pulling for about a second. I was to say the least.

 

[jimnance]

mileage

Originally posted by muddymess

greg,

had the stage 1s in when the rig was a month or so old

as to mpg,,,,,,,,,i did do a run where i didnt get on it and play. very hard to do at tween 17,500 and 18,000 gcvw at just under 15 mpg. [14. 9] i didnt really play but still no psd with a trlr was allowed to pass me on the uphills

I am amazed. I was pulling 14K 34' fifth wheel and averaged 9. 5 MPG for a 1600 mile trip. Granted, the fifth wheel sits high and has a lot of drag. Also, lots of up's and downs between Oregon and W. Yellowstone, MT. . Also, we were running 70 MPH - 78 MPH the whole trip. Considering all that I was happy with 9. 5 MPG.



I can't imagine getting 15 MPG unless I was looking at the trip computer which lies gig time with the EZ hooked up.



Maybe you are using some of that "magic" amsoil?

 

[CATCRACKER]

my truck pull harder when i floor it and as i am letting off the throttle it pulls harder than as if i still had it on the floor. i guess we are going to call this the "flare" ? sounds good to me. i kind of like the flare i have learned to use it. how many of out there have the flare? (my flare kicks in when ever i have my foot in it good and the rail has time to build excess pressure, takes a while to bleed off in the form of horespower)



"LUKE USE THE FLARE "

 

[Hudsonhawk]

Mine will flare only after I am in it hard. Otherwise there is no problem.

 

[ntenna]

Same here. Looks like CatCracker has it tamed!

 

[CATCRACKER]

if a box further exaggerates this then it might get a little out of control. i can see it now when i get my big box on my truck some of my buddies screaming like little girls when they drive "I ALMOST LOST CONTROL!" and i will say "LUUUUUKE... ... USE THE FLARE TO BURN LITTLE HONDAS"







Sorry guys i am a little nerdy its all about the humor even if it is bad:-laf