Bully Torque Dog = slipping clutch

[MattSt]

Originally posted by CATCRACKER

if a box further exaggerates this then it might get a little out of control. i can see it now when i get my big box on my truck some of my buddies screaming like little girls when they drive "I ALMOST LOST CONTROL!" and i will say "LUUUUUKE... ... USE THE FLARE TO BURN LITTLE HONDAS"



Sorry guys i am a little nerdy its all about the humor even if it is bad:-laf

As long as your not sitting there talking into a fan saying that over and over agian I thing you will be ok. LOL



LUUUUUUKE Luke I am your Faaaaatherrrrr

 

[JTeague]

Mine does the flare thing too. I never mentioned it because I have just altered my driving habits to conpensate. I let of the throttle, wait a split second, then clutch and shift. Now it is just second nature. I just checked the fuel mileage tonight after I filled up, 471 miles since last fill-up, took 24 gallons to fill back up. My math says thats 19. 625 mpg. Overhead said 19. 7 mpg. I say thats pretty dang accurate considering the box is on high all of the time. The overhead was accurate before the box also. As far as the codes, I think its just a small glitch in the programming at the lower rpm levels. That being said, I still blame my driving habits for the light coming on. I lugged the engine to less than 1000 rpms and then jumped on the throttle quickly to get going up the hill at the end of my driveway. For all of you on the fence about getting this box, there might be better ones to come in the future, but, I think BullyDog hit a home run with this box right off the bat. I'm still waiting for everone else to come out with their own versions and will likely try an Edge and a TST. I look for things to get interesting in upcoming months.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

My truck had the flare when you let up from WOT too. It came that way from DC. The box only exaggerates it on level 2. On level 1 I am barely aware it is on except for the added power in the upper rpm's.



As for the light,

I have set the Map sensor light too. # 0234 is something it is looking for. Philip from Bullydog is the one I have been working with from the start. He explained it well to me. I can't even try to make sense of it all. About the third sentence I started to hear german. The funny thing about the light is that it only comes on once and a while. Not because of an over boost issue. Just sometimes is there when I turn over the key. Then five or six starts later it is gone for a couple of days. My truck has been setting the code for about 2 months with no problems. It is a small price to pay for such an awsome box. This doesn't mean that the fix isn't on the way. I do not know yet. The mileage I am getting is still on the ok level 15 mpg 85 mph on cruise. As for the performance: It is truly amazing. Leaving the parking structure at the Las Vegas airport today, I left two sets of two, black stripes for about 50 feet around a corner going uphill. The best part was my mom was following me close behind and called me. "GREGORY YOU ARE STILL GOING TO KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!" Hehehehe Sorry Mom, Greg

 

[Swayse]

I'm getting the DD turbo mainly to get rid of the flare. Drove me crazy at first, but now it's not so bad. Don't know if I'm getting used to it, or if the truck doesn't do it so bad anymore. I'll let you know how it is after the turbo.



OK, Friday I should hit the strip. Then by next friday I should have my DD turbo, then it's off to the strip again. So, place your bets, what will I run? I'm hoping to be in the 14s and in the 90s. I know that my 315/70/17s hurt my times, but I wouldn't have it any other way.



I ran a 18 at 74 stock

I ran a 15. 9 at 84 with the Edge EZ



I've raced a couple of Goats, 2002 HO 6 speed with the Edge Comp Drag box, I beat him by 2 trucks. And a 2002 HO 6 speed Goat with DD stage 3 injectors and a Edge Comp Drag box with the box on level one, I got him by like half a truck. We tried higher levels but his clutch let go. It was really weird to see all the smoke that 02 put out and still was seeing my tail lights. Mine gives off a little puff of smoke and that's it, I don't see a bit of smoke when boost is up.



I'm just a bit excited, had to share.

 

[CATCRACKER]

swayse,

thanks for the report. good one. thanks for doing research and development for us who have wives that dont allow us to play around. i have to do it right the first time or i will be divorced.

We are listening to your posts. Cant wait to hear about the turbo and other stuff.



later CC

 

[MUDDY]

Re: mileage

Originally posted by jimnance

I am amazed. I was pulling 14K 34' fifth wheel and averaged 9. 5 MPG for a 1600 mile trip. Granted, the fifth wheel sits high and has a lot of drag. Also, lots of up's and downs between Oregon and W. Yellowstone, MT. . Also, we were running 70 MPH - 78 MPH the whole trip. Considering all that I was happy with 9. 5 MPG.



I can't imagine getting 15 MPG unless I was looking at the trip computer which lies gig time with the EZ hooked up.



Maybe you are using some of that "magic" amsoil?

no amsoil,,,,,,,yet

the tt i pull is a bmpr pull. weight, tween 6,000 and 7,ooo depending if mrs muddy is w/ us. the truck weighs 9400lb empty[no pasengers or cargo] full of fuel. 3 tanks, 104 gallon. flatbed is 9'2'' long and 7'8''wide and w/ metal sideboards and endgate, underbed boxes full. chains,hiliftjack etc. . i have weighed truck at 12,000 w/ weight of tt tongue and flatbed loaded w/ everything the kids and ol lady dictated we take and tt axle weight a bit over 6,ooo. got a low of 12. 3 and a high of just over 15. headwind vs tail wind. wind restance of u 5er is greater than a bumper pull but a bp tt still has lot of wind as it goes over cab and onto floor of flatbed [when empty] then up again when wind hits tt. flatbed also has xtra wind drag. caused 1. 5 mpg decrease day it was installed w/ stock inj and no box. the stage 1 inj and bulldog box have helped mpg as long as box is in mid position. last pull was 14. 2mpg w/ calcultr. to more i get on it with box on the more mpg cmptr is inacurate. most of time its not off too much box on low. i drive 65 usually



9,5 mpg u get is good for towin a 14k 5er,,,,,,,,what,,,,,,,,,,,23k gross. 78 mph is a pretty good clip and mpg goes down bunches at that speed w/ the weight and wind. harold gets sligthly over 10 mpg w/ a similar load as u and drives 65 at fastest



bet id get better mpg if timing only was on 1st position on switch. discussed w/ philip some time back and others have xpresed desire for timing only posiition so now bullydog will be offering the box w/ timing on pos 1 w/ no fuelprssr increase. pos 2 have timing and some fp increase, pos 3 timng and more fp incrse. lookin fwd to the mpg increase this will add. mpg and pwr incrs w/ no fp increase on 1st level

 

[Swayse]

I have a very sweet and understanding wife. I'm gonna jump on the TST box as soon as I can and stack. Then get the clutch and I'm done. I hope stacking works. It should work, just unplug the crank and cam sensors and it will only be a pressure box. If that don't work, I'll send it off to bully dog and get it reprogrammed to do fuel pressure only. I like that it has a switch to turn it on and off and different power levels from inside the cab, wouldn't have bought it with out the switch.

 

[CATCRACKER]

swayse,



how much hp will we be looking at with the big three at once Fuel Pressure, Pulse width, Timing. I will call it "FTP" for short.



i know "F" is about 80hp



"T&P" are bringing 140hp



could we be looking at 200 with just boxes?



if so:--) that would put me around 480-500 with just boxes





my plan is to just get the "TP" box and then add big injectors i dont want to add fuel by raising pressure rather just punch some bigger holes in my injectors. plus with injectors i will get a little smoke.

 

[MattSt]

Originally posted by CATCRACKER

and then add big injectors i dont want to add fuel by raising pressure rather just punch some bigger holes in my injectors. plus with injectors i will get a little smoke.

With the TD box on high if I lug the motor AT ALL. Meaning any 1/2 throttle or more condition when the truck is making less than 10 pounds of boost I get a big black cloud of smoke. The EGT don't seem to raise much more than 100 degrees or so and just until the boost comes in.





It's great for tail gaters! Going 45 grab 5th and slowly ease past 1/2 throttle. Belch a big ole cloud. :-laf :-laf

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

There are major modifications to the common rail and fuel delivery system to get more power from big injectors. With a box adding 150 hp (Bullydog) you will generaly see 40 hp increase with 100 hp injectors.

 

[Swayse]

I thought it was the other way. I thought I heard Diesel Dynamics say that we would get more than 100 hp from 100 hp injectors because we raise fuel pressure. Don't know.



I don't like raising fuel pressure either, but I'm taking a chance on it. Once I get my TST or Edge box, I'm only gonna raise fuel pressure to race. My goal is around 450rwhp and then I'm gonna stop. I should be around 350 to 370 with the Bully Dog box, we'll see after tonight. GOING RACING!!!

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Different companies have different opinions. DD says lots of HP with injectors and no box. Bullydog says that with thier box on level 2, 150 hp increase, that they only see 40 extra HP. I know DD had a prototype edge box, turbo,and injectors to acchieve 550+ HP no problem. That was over a year ago. I believe DD will always be the high HP guys. They will alway be my first choice for HP. I got this box for free to test it and report. So far I really like it. It does what it claims. I also really like the EZ on level 6. It pulls harder early on and then looses HP on the top. I think that is where the timing advance of the Bully box gives the kick. It doesn't even pull untill 2000 rpm's on level 2. Level 1 doesn't pull untill 2300 rpm's. I have complained about this from the gitgo but with meager results.

 

[DLeno]

well, if you ask me, DD's core compentancy is injectors (as upposed to boxes); they partner with Edge for the software piece and fueling boxes; use Edge for the software R&D so they can concentrate on injectors and combustion. The Edge core competancy is fueling boxes (as upposed to injectors).



DD has a different timing philosophy than does Edge, and this is reflected in their (DD) version of the Edge fueling boxes. Remember that this is because (my opinion here) DD takes primarily an injector-centric approach to fueing -- so any box they release has to reflect their own injector approach to HP philosophy and will most likely be optimized for use with their injectors. Edge, on the other hand, takes a box-oriented approach to HP and (my opinion again here) releases boxes with a more aggressive timing philosophy that optimizes for box-only use.



the reason this distinction is important (my opinion again, here) is that a larger injector may need some software help to make it sing right. that is, just larger bursts of whatever stock fuel events are programmed may not be optimum.



If you ask me, if you plan on injectors, you better be depending on someone like Lawrence (owner of DD) who vigorously studies the injector-fueling box marriage. If you dont', and you mate a box that was never tested with or designed for use with injectors, you're asking for some engine codes.



Thats one reason why I'm nervous about the bullydog box. a couple of guys are setting codes with theirs, and it doesn't bother me at all that DD took their time to R&D with Edge on the timing/duration box soon to be released. it takes time to really understand things.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

DLeno,

I agree that DD is the place to go for HP. I said so in my first post. I had an 01 that put 450 DD hp to the ground and did it very well on a daily basis. Lets not get to far from the subject here. This was a place to discuss " Bullydog Box Slipping Clutch".



I have felt no slipping yet. I run WOT often/daily. Not that Injectors wont help with slippage, But with the box alone I have no problems.



As for the Edge box. I will switch to that with DDII's as soon as it is available. I like the low end grunt of an injector and a box. I would like to have another 450 HP truck. I know they(DD) can get you there now with injectors, turbo, airbox, EZ, and exhaust. All I need is a turbo and a set of II's. That is the way I will run for good. The Bullydog is just a prototype. Now it is on the market and I think it is worth the $$$$$$ and the bang for the buck is there.

 

[DLeno]

no argument from me, Greg. I'm 100% in agreement you and meant to come across that way. and let me add this bonus comment: i think its great that guys like you are out there testing these boxes and reporting results. you create a three-way win: you get to play, we get to watch, and the mfg gets test results.



I'm just conservative about the bully dog only because of two red flags: a production unit setting codes (or am I wrong about this?) and the rail pressure increase which is just my preference to avoid. that and I have great respect for Lawrence, as most of the world does, and I expect to see that the DD guys will take the time to consider corner cases, manufacturing tolerances, and safety margin to insure that no codes get set. But I'm viewing this as an end-user customer, not a beta tester. actually I envy you cause you get to test prototypes



sorry for the thread drift. I really like your goal of DD2's plus a 100HP duration and timing box. Can't wait to see the guage possibilities of the in-cab unit.



back to the subject -- indeed I have been reading this with great interest, to see how the clutch is holding.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

I set a code with a prototype box. It was a MAP sensor deal. Not much to worry about. The EZ and DD's version of it raise pressures to almost 30,000 psi. I have an EZ on my wifes truck. I like it better down low and I like the Bullydog on the top.

Bullydog said to me " we don't want to raise fuel pressures as much as others have had to. We don't think it is nessicary. " I can tell you that with the box on level 1 it builds less boost and lowers EGT's over stock. That tells me the timing is doing the brunt of the job. On level 2 it adds pressure to get the HP #'s up.

Edge will have something that is up to par for sure. It just keeps taking another month and then another then another... .....

 

[MattSt]

Originally posted by DLeno

I'm just conservative about the bully dog only because of two red flags: a production unit setting codes (or am I wrong about this?)

I'm not sure about anyone elses box, but I had to wait an extra week to get mine because they wanted to add in a few updates before they sent it out. I have put almost 1000 miles on my box and have yet to get any codes. I was kinda hoping for a code since I can pull and clear them with my laptop.



Clutch is still holding fine. Have only had about 5000 #'s behind it since the box, but this weekend I will get to load up and do a max GVWR pull with the box and see if it still holds.

 

[MCummings]

Even my PE COMP in my 98. 5 sets a low boost code occasionally. No power differences, all I have to do is get on and off the throttle real fast at low RPM and I'll get a C. E. Light.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[DLeno]

good comments, guys. yea, I'm nervous about the current EZ box for the 03's just for the (rail pressure) reason. Maybe bullydog doesn't raise pressure that much -- and I really don't understand what kind of margin we have in the fuel rail system itself. I mean, raising rail pressure at all sounds like a crap shoot -- its the lack of information that is giving me "pause" if you will. Can we be certain that the same pump and rail design is used in other Cummins applications at the higher pressures? Does it really have the robustness and mechanical integrity to sustain high pressures for long periods of time with many on/off cycles. It just seems like a reliability risk to me.



good to see continued R&D with these boxes. the PE comp wasn't very reliable when it was first introduced either, and they made updates to it for later years if memory serves. My PE comp on my 02 has been perfect.



so there has been a delay with the proposed August into of the Edge/DD box?

 

[MUDDY]

inj box combo

prolly u dont gain as much as ya shld with injectors in combo w/ box is liftpump aint supplyin enuff fuel. 1 rig w/dd3s and ez gained 30hp w/ addition of a dd supply pump



if u see my dyno reslts w/ bdog box and stage 1 injectors. u see not a big diff mid pos to hi position. tq increse is good. tells me its runnin out of fuel higher rpm



mine

off=330/606 mid pos=428/776 hi pos=438/887



new stocker

278/511 mid pos=372/677 hi pos=405/795



inj adds 52hp stock, 56 mid, 33 hi



seems lp is a restriction.