Bullydog downloader

[Tomeygun]

I I just had a long talk with daryl @ bully dog, and we talked about HP-torque, etc...



After talking to him, I am wondering what the average cummins will gain from this box, he did confirm that the 184 gain was NOT from his shop, but said that he it could be true... The number that they are publishing are 50/95/110 --- But they have dynoed at 130-140 on the top program - He told me it is a combo of timing, duration, etc... because of course it is all in the ECM...



the GREAT part is the price - He said it is under $600 ! - not bad if is a true 184hp box... which is yet to be seen...



As i was talking to him, he told me he had a SO on the dyno right now, and it pulled 215hp stock... and they had the Downld'er on it, and will be dynoing it soon, that will be proof of the pudding... I told him i will call him later this afternoon



Couple of side notes --- Daryl was very nice and knowledgable, and did not dog on any other boxes (you know how that sometimes happens), he did the right thing and did not try to inflate the numbers but told the truth, that he did not see 184hp on HIS dyno, but he did not say it was not possible -- I did not get to ask about egt, but gains were with the stock charger



I will be calling daryl this afternoon with much anticipation

 

[jcarey]

TomeyGun, thanks, good news.



Jim

 

[SRadke]

Hmm..... Bullydog has a timing/duration box now? Does it add fuel pressure also? I've heard nothing about it. Really looking forward to some more deatails about this.



-Scott

 

[Diesel Dan]

Sradke,

This is not a box. It downloads a new program in the ECM. One of the benifits is that it is not electronic chip based. Only software based so no parts can fail. And it stores the fact program so you can return it back to stock anytime from inside the cab.



Seems pretty neat to me



DD

 

[SRadke]

Thanks Dan, that definitly does sound interesting. How do you go about changing the power levels or the program back to stock form then? Is there some sort of remote that plugs into the ECM to allow for in cab control? I would really like more info on this.



-Scott

 

[DLeno]

no in cab control. the ECM stores only one program at a time (you have a choice of what flavor to download). If you want warranty protection make sure there is no timestamp left behind.

 

[SRadke]

So you have to choose between 50/95/110 and only get one of the above? Does the price include a programmer so you can change it if you like? Starting to sound like you may as well buy a set of injectors.



-Scott

 

[ZRacer]

Do they reflash the stock ECM, or do they make a new one that has a pinout so you can plug in and download?

 

[DLeno]

the downloader is a programmer device that plugs into the OBD port under the steering wheel. It reflashes the ECM with one of three possible program choices and is capable of returning the stock parameters as well.



so you buy a physical device, plug it into your OBD port, perform a one-time flash, and then put the physical device away. you don't need it again unless you want to change the program or return to stock. zero part count on the truck while driving.

 

[mattymac]

These have been out for a long time for the other trucks. The hot one right now is for the D-max, its the TTS power tuner. Its capable of 200+HP all done by the ECM. No chips, or boxes, just a diffrent program burned (temporaraly of course) into the ECM. The best thing is, is that with this you can stack another duration box, pressure box, and injectors if one wishes, and the CP3, fuel rail, and turbos are up to the task at hand. TST, BDog downloader, EDGE EZ, Injectors, twin turbos, what a nice little combo!

 

[DLeno]

. you can stack another duration box, pressure box, and injectors if one wishes, and the CP3, fuel rail, and turbos are up to the task at hand.

the method of power enhancement (box, downloader, injectors) has no impact on the suitability of stock engine components. all the same limitations apply - the CP3 and the rail is still limited to, what, something around 600 HP; the low pressure fuel systems is still maxed out at 350HP, the stock turbo can't sustain more than about 325 HP. Rail pressure should still be limited to approximately 26,000 psi in my opinion. And all these limits apply regardless of whether power is obtained from one external box or in combination with the downloader, two stacked boxes, no boxes, whatever, and there is no work saying that just any box will stack with a downloaded program. using a box on top of a downloader still requires some thinking re: what makes sense for a balanced approach.



I understand that the bullydog does leave some room for pressure as an enhancement, so a pressure box would probably be a good stack. I'm not sure I would attempt stacking a Van Aaken C3. 2 with the downloader; that sounds like an EGT problem to me. And stacking the downloader with a timing/duration box also sounds irresponsible without more information. EZ + injectors + TST is already at the limit of the fuel rail -- adding a downloader won't magically retrieve fuel out of the air and would probably perform worse.



Just think of the downloader as having three virtual fueling boxes on the shelf waiting for you to choose which one you want. the first step is to understand those virtual boxes before you decide what might stack well with it. the fact that the downloader has no physical connections does widen the field of hardware boxes that will not fight or fail when hooked up, but just because it hooks up and the truck runs doesn't mean you have an optimized or balanced solution.

 

[mattymac]

I think that the aftermarket will give us a bigger fuel rail to compensate for the low volume issue that we face with our small rail someday. I think that this new 3rd gen motor is the best one designed to date along with the most advanced fuel system to date. The D-max has the same style CP3 pump as us and they will be at 800 hp any day now. The only diffrence is they have a larger fuel rail than us. They are using mainly the TTS downloader, HJAT (hot juice w/ attitude), pressure box, and some drugs. It wont be long before the aftermarket catches up to the wants and needs.

 

[Schicken bone]

before i bought banks i called bd and must have got the a hole for a sales rep. i am not saying there product is not a good one. but the tech support SUCKS!!!!!

 

[coobie]

Question

no in cab control. the ECM stores only one program at a time (you have a choice of what flavor to download). If you want warranty protection make sure there is no timestamp left behind.

Does the Bully dog Increase fuel mileage as well ?? Just curious,a guy at work installed a bully dog in his 2003 Dura-max and claims his MPG went up 3-4 miles per gallon. Thanks for any Info. coobie

 

[1badplr]

If these guy's are changing the ECM, I wonder if they can raise the RPM's???

 

[DLeno]

RPM limits -- could be -- that question would have to go to Bullydog. If memory serves they have a race program, a tow program and an economy program -- maybe the actual names are different (I don't remember). I don't see why they couldn't override the RPM limitation on the race program, but whether or not they did, or if it is truly possible I don't know.



fuel economy -- all the same answers that apply to fueling boxes and mpg improvements apply to the downloader. To varying degrees, all these methods of power enhancement can impact fuel economy (in either direction). There are some technical reasons why some methods might yield an improvement (some more than others), and there are many astonishing claims and even anectotal accounts of such. But there are astonishing claims and anectotal accounts of miracle diet pills too. My advice on the fuel economy claims is that you shouldn't expect any.

that way you won't be dissapointed when you find out that didn't gain as much as you thought, or even didn't gain any. As I say, its possible that a small improvement (I'd say between zero and 1. 5 mpg) would be believable under optimum driving conditions and with timing and pressure, but probably NOT to the degree that the anectotal stories would have you believe. there are just too many variables, placebo effects, etc. it takes time and patience to validate a real and measureable improvement in fuel economy.



and reading the overhead trip computer is the worst possible and most unreliable method of showing an improvment. Even 1 or 2 tanks of fuel is not enough, calculated by hand.



don't misunderstand - I'm not saying fuel economy improvments don't happen. I'm saying that they are overstated and, for the most part, not substantiated with statistically valid methods. somebody says "oh I made 2 mpg improvement" in most cases it won't hold up under statistical rigor.

 

[coobie]

DLeno,thanks foor the HONEST reply on fuel mileage facts. coobie

 

[robertyoke]

Does the Bully dog Increase fuel mileage as well ?? Just curious,a guy at work installed a bully dog in his 2003 Dura-max and claims his MPG went up 3-4 miles per gallon. Thanks for any Info. coobie

this guy I know clames his d-max gets 20 to 22 mpg pulling his 30 ft toy box he is probably going off the overhead display and it is no longer accurate.

 

[realsquash]

The Bullydog product shouldn't affect the accuracy of the overhead since they aren't lying to the ECM.



Andy

 

[SRadke]

The Bullydog product shouldn't affect the accuracy of the overhead since they aren't lying to the ECM.



Andy

That depends on where they pick up the info that the overhead is based on. Some Manuf. use data from the TPS in which case most any mod would throw it off.



-Scott