Burn my flag, OK, fine.

[Chad Sheets]

For those who want to light Old Glory on fire, stomp all over it, or

spit on it to make some sort of "statement", I say let them do it.

BUT UNDER ONE CONDITION:

They MUST get permission from three sponsors.





First, you need permission of a war veteran, perhaps a Marine who

fought at Iwo Jima for starters ... .



The American flag was raised over Mount Surabachi upon the bodies of

thousands of dead buddies. Each night spent on Iwo meant half of

everyone you knew would be dead tomorrow, a coin flip away from a

bloody end upon a patch of sand your mother couldn't find on a map.



Or maybe ask a Vietnam vet who spent years tortured in a small, filthy

cell unfit for a dog. Or a Korean War soldier who helped rescue half a

nation from Communism, or a Desert Storm warrior who repulsed a bloody

dictator from raping and pillaging an innocent country.



That flag represented your mother and father, your sister and brother,

your friends, neighbors, and everyone at home.



I wonder what they would say if someone asked them permission to burn

the American flag?



Next, you need a signature from an immigrant. Their brothers and sisters

may still languish in their native land, often under tyranny, poverty

and misery.

Or maybe they died on the way here, never to touch our shores. Some

have seen friends and family get tortured and murdered by their own

government for daring to do things we take for granted every day.



For those who risked everything simply for the chance to become an

American ... what kind of feelings do they have for the flag when they

Pledge Allegiance the first time?

Go to a naturalization ceremony and see for yourself, the tears of

pride, the thanks, the love and respect of this nation, as they finally

embrace the American flag as their own.

Ask one of them if it would be OK to tear up the flag.



Last, you should get the signature of a mother, not just any mother ... .

You need a mother of someone who gave their life for America. It doesn't

even have to be from a war. It could be a cop, or a fireman, maybe a

Secret Service or NSA Agent.

Then again, it could be a common foot soldier as well.

When that son or daughter is laid to rest, their family is given one

gift by the American people, an American flag.

Go on, I dare you, ask that mother to spit on her flag or burn it.



I wonder what the founding fathers thought of the American flag as they

drafted the Declaration of Independence? They knew this act would drag

young America into war with England, the greatest power on earth. They

also knew failure meant more than just a disappointment. I meant a noose

snugly stretched around their necks. But they needed a symbol, something

to inspire the new nation. Something to represent the seriousness, the

purpose and conviction that we held our new idea of individual freedom.

Something worth living for. Something worth dying for.



I wonder how they'd feel if someone asked them permission to toss their

flag in a mud puddle?



Away from family, away from the precious shores of home, in the face of

overwhelming odds and often in the face of death, the American flag

inspires those who believe in the American dream, the American promise,

the American vision ...



Americans who don't appreciate the flag don't appreciate this nation.

And those who appreciate this nation appreciate the American flag.

Those who fought, fought for that flag.

Those who died, died for that flag.

And those who love America, love that flag, and defend it.



So if you want to desecrate the American flag, before you spit on it or

before you burn it ... I have a simple request:



GET PERMISSION!

 

[John]

Excellent Chad!

Awesome. Absolutely awesome!



Although, the way I look at it...



if you want to spit on the American flag, burn it, or not pledge your allegiance to it, you can just get the hell out of this country! In other words, if you don't like it here. . leave! No one will miss your sorry a$$ anyway... least of all, the war hero, the immigrant, the mother or myself.

 

[PHuckleberry]

From my heart I agree, I spent 7 years wearing the green. But when I raised my right hand and swore(?) to protect and defend the Consititution ect... the very 1st amendment says that they have that right. It really makes my blood boil to watch someone do it, but I don't know the answer. I have a flag flying on my home and my Heaven help the stupid SOB that tries to burn that one!

 

[Chad Sheets]

Just a matter of time.



Campus protesters ignite U. S. flags



Friday, October 19, 2001

By PATRICK JOHNSON





AMHERST — Amherst College students were stunned moments after a pro-America rally involving more than 100 people ended yesterday when several protesters emerged from the crowd to set fire to a U. S. flag.



As the sounds of "God Bless America" continued through the public address system in front of the Keefe Campus Center, as many as 10 demonstrators doused two flags with lighter fluid and set them on fire.



Five members of the group then spread a larger flag on the ground and stood on it while chanting "This flag doesn't represent me; this flag doesn't represent us. "



The crowd of more than 100 people, mostly Amherst College students who moments before rallied around the flag, stood in stunned silence as the same flag was desecrated.



"This is really upsetting to me," said Christopher Palacios, a sophomore from Miami.



Palacios, who said his parents fled Cuba in the 1960s to escape Fidel Castro, said, "It makes me sick when American kids say the American flag scares them. "



The pro-America rally yesterday was organized by a new student group called Amherst Assembly for Patriotism.



The group formed in response to peace rallies at each of the Five Colleges in recent weeks as well as the controversial decision by the town of Amherst to limit flag displays downtown.



"Amherst is 25 square miles surrounded by reality," said Theodore Hertzberg, a sophomore from Long Island. "I'm relieved the rest of the country does not feel the same way. "



The crowd had just finished a group recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance and was beginning to disperse when as many as 10 protesters came forward.



Most of those protesting the flag declined to be interviewed.



One who did, 19-year-old Dan Griffin of Minneapolis, Minn. , said the protest sought to show that the United States is responsible for much of the pain and suffering in the world.



The United States has helped continue a spree of genocide that dates back to Columbus in 1492, he said.



"How people take it is how they take it," he said.



Griffin identified himself as a student but declined to say at which college. He said the others are from different area colleges but would not say which.



Hampshire College officials confirmed a student named Dan Griffin is registered.



The University of Massachusetts records show a Daniel Griffin was enrolled but he withdrew at the start of the semester.



Michael Flood, co-founder of the Amherst Assembly for Patriotism, said he found the actions of the protesters to be inappropriate, especially since he suspects none of them are from Amherst College.



"I believe they have a right to burn the flag, but this is inappropriate," he said.



Sophomore Nick Echelbarger from Seattle said the burning was free speech of the lowest form.



"It doesn't make a point. It's just poor taste," he said.

 

[Papa Joe]

Better have a police escort (LOL) if anyone burns a flag in my neighborhood. Even then, they'll hear words from me they can't even imagine.

 

[Diesel Freak]

I realize it is their right to burn the flag that represents the country that gives them that right, but if I see it happen there will be he11 to pay.



If they want to burn the flag, then they need to get out of my country.

 

[DRR-24V]

I didn't think you could legally burn our flag. And where the hell is Amherst? Is it in USA?

 

[Diesel Freak]

yes it is legal



Thank the ACLU for that one.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by Papa Joe

Better have a police escort (LOL) if anyone burns a flag in my neighborhood. Even then, they'll hear words from me they can't even imagine.

Papa Joe,



More than likely that will never happen. These "perps" are ignorant but not stupid. Not only do they pick a place where they are not likely to be physically confronted but per the article, don't even attend class there.

 

[RBrunson]

This says it all....

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God

Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone

might be offended.



Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags

removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue ribbons

removed from the lapels of reporters. Why? Management did

not want to appear biased and felt that our nations flag

might give the appearance that "they lean one way or another".



Berkeley, California bans U. S. Flags from being displayed on

city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend anyone

in the community.



In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public library at

Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be an

American" signs removed so as to not offend international

students.



I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of so-called

American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying

about whether or not we are offending some individual or

their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on September 11,

we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of

Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely

settled in New York and Washington D. C. when the "politically

correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that

our patriotism was offending others.



I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against

anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. In

fact, our country's population is almost entirely comprised of

descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few things

that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently

some native Americans, need to understand.



First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try

not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a

multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our

sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have

our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our

own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way" has been

developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by

millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our

forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker

Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam,

and the Persian Gulf, for our way of life.



We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,

Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to

become part of our society - learn our language!



"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some

off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it

is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House

of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our

currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and

women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and

this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is

appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our

highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate

to display it on the walls of our schools.



God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every

patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His

! ! birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to

Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then

I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new

home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud

to have Him.



We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably

defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day,

Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades,

picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag. As

an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national

anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever

and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or

you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a

move to another part of this planet.



The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we

are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no

desire to change, and we! ! really don't care how you did things

where you came from. We are Americans, like it or not, this

is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.



Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express

his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we

will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are

done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our

pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly

encourage you take advantage of one other great American

freedom, the right to leave.





This should be copied on a card and handed out to all the low life that have such a problem with our God, our Flag, and our Country.

 

[Bill Lins]

Sorry to those who disagree, but I think the Supreme Court was smoking dope when they ruled the burning or desecrating of our American flag to constitute "freedom of speech". I agree that any one can protest verbally all they want, but burning the flag goes way beyond that. Some call it "freedom of expression" but I have yet to find THAT one in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Hopefully, the Supremes will someday sober up and revisit this issue. Until then, anyone who burns or desecrates an American, Texas, or USMC flag in MY presence will have their "Constitutional" rights violated big time, right then and right there. Semper Fi

 

[Chad Sheets]

Dad always says save for a rainy day. I have a little bit put aside for bail and legal fee's just for things like this.



Always been in good graces with the community and the law. Never been arrested for anything, just the usual traffic ticket once in a blue moon.



Like I always say, if I am going to have a permanent record, then it will read like a Military award. Let me catch someone burning a flag, tearing up a cemetery or veterans memorial, and they will see what a crazy man is all about. I have been known to foam at the mouth, talk in tongues and have my eyes bug out like boiled eggs when I get real fired up and do things most holy people would write off as demonic possession. I would like to show these people what a chemical imbalance is all about

 

[jandtjil]

Mike's Flag

You've probably seen the bumper sticker somewhere along the road. It depicts an American Flag, accompanied by the words "These colors don't run. " I'm always glad to see this, because it reminds me of an incident from my confinement in North Vietnam at the Hao Lo POW Camp, or the "Hanoi Hilton," as it became known. Then a Major in the U. S. Air Force, I had been captured and imprisoned from 1967-1973. Our treatment had been frequently brutal. After three years, however, the beatings and torture became less frequent.

During the last year, we were allowed outside most days for a couple of minutes to bathe. We showered by drawing water from a concrete tank with a homemade bucket. One day as we all stood by the tank, stripped of our clothes, a young Naval pilot named Mike Christian found the remnants of a handkerchief in a gutter that ran under the prison wall. Mike managed to sneak the grimy rag into our cell and began fashioning it into a flag.

Over time we all loaned him a little soap, and he spent days cleaning the material. We helped by scrounging and stealing bits and pieces of anything he could use. At night, under his mosquito net, Mike worked on the flag. He made red and blue from ground-up roof tiles and tiny amounts of ink and painted the colors onto the cloth with watery rice glue. Using thread from his own blanket and a homemade bamboo needle, he sewed on stars.

Early in the morning a few days later, when the guards were not alert, he whispered loudly from the back of our cell, "Hey gang, look here. " He proudly held up this tattered piece of cloth, waving it as if in a breeze. If you used your imagination, you could tell it was supposed to be an American flag. When he raised that smudgy fabric, we automatically stood straight and saluted, our chests puffing out, and more than a few eyes had tears.

About once a week the guards would strip us, run us outside and go through our clothing. During one of those shakedowns, they found Mike's flag. We all knew what would happen. That night they came for him. The night interrogations were always the worst. They opened the cell door and pulled Mike out. We could hear the beginning of the torture before they even had him in the torture cell. They beat him most of the night.

About daylight they pushed what was left of him back through the cell door. He was badly broken; even his voice was gone. Within two weeks, despite the danger, Mike scrounged another piece of cloth and began another flag. The Stars and Stripes, our national symbol, was worth the sacrifice to him. Now whenever I see the flag, I think of Mike and the morning he first waved that tattered emblem of a nation. It was then, thousands of miles from home in a lonely prison cell, that he showed us what it is to be truly free.



Condensed from a speech by Leo K. Thorness, recipient of The Congressional Medal of Honor.



This was read during class (NCO academy, Lackland AFB) this week, it had a profound effect on us all.

If there is a reason to burn our flag there is a hundred thousand not too.



JJ

 

[DRR-24V]

Can't Find The Words !

Words cannot express my feelings. Great Post.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Ditto

 

[tntway]

amherst

yes its sad to say but amherst is in the u. s. somewhere in the middle of the commonwealth of massachusetts. they're not even a state. my deepest sympathies to veetenjeff, massdiesel,mopar muscle, et al. this commonwealth has also given us such debacles as the boston red sox (of whom i am an ever-suffering fan),and the new england pansies (after what kraft did to Ct. , i can't wait for them to fold). if i can figger out how to post it i'll post an e-mail that my brother sent me on this very subject.

 

[tntway]

for everything else, there's mastercard

here goes... had to crop this down quite a bit to fit but you get the idea...



american flag:$25

gasoline: $2. 00

lighter: $2. 50

catching yourself on fire because

you're a terrorist a$$hole: priceless

 

[DRR-24V]

Soldiers-Old but Good !

It is the soldier, not the reporter,

who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet,

who has given us freedom of speech.



It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,

who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier, not the lawyer,

who has given us the right to a fair trial.



It is the soldier,

who salutes the flag,

who serves under the flag,

and whose coffin is draped by the flag,

who allows the protester to burn the flag.



America Freedom

Don't take it lightly!

 

[nps]

Originally posted by Chad Sheets

Friday, October 19, 2001

By PATRICK JOHNSON



Most of those protesting the flag declined to be interviewed.



One who did, 19-year-old Dan Griffin of Minneapolis, Minn. , said the protest sought to show that the United States is responsible for much of the pain and suffering in the world.



The United States has helped continue a spree of genocide that dates back to Columbus in 1492, he said.

So funny how ignorant some domestically born Americans are regarding global issues. Here in Bombay the locals don't fret about the pain and suffering of the masses because they are too busy taking care of themselves and the magnitude of the problem is too great. If the local leadership doesn't care, then why does a bunch of naive college students think the US should? India is not unique - the same is true elsewhere in the world.



Is it because they feel the US policy supports genocide because our foriegn policy is more concerned with business than human rights? Well the sword cuts both ways. I have been denied on three occasions the opportunity to close large telecom deals with foriegn governments because of US policies. All the lobbying in the world wouldn't change the policy and European companies ended up getting the business.



Is it because they feel that the US backs oppressive regimes? In many cases the replacement regime is more oppressive than the one it replaced, because they don't want done to them what they did to the former.



Is it because we are too meddling in foriegn affairs? Look what Hitler and the Japs were able to accomplish while the US was in an isolationist policy period. Not until the Japanese attacked did the general public support US involvement. They think US intervention causes suffering - look at the isolationist alternative.



Yeah, a Supreme Court, sometime back in a more liberal time, said they can burn the flag . The court has been known to reverse itself. Would love to see a review of that opinion.



Chad - got one more to add to your list of permissions - anyone wanting to burn a flag should have had to serve in the Peace Corps in an area commonly known as an "armpit" for at least a year before seeking all your other permissions.

 

[GFoley]

It is probably a real good time to pass a Constitutional ammendment against flag burning. The American Leagion and other organizations I am sure have been trying to do just this for a long time.