buying a new truck

[pfalero@aol.com]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and this is my first post. I am driving myself crazy trying to decide what truck to get. I love the looks of the Ford 250HD Supercab Powerstroke 4x4. Find it easier to climb into (I'm 5'1"), and prefer the handling. Also prefer the interior. But... ... ... I keep hearing how great the Cummins is, and that it gets better MPG. I know this site is basically Dodge so there will be a little bias, however I'm interested in your opinions. I am buying this truck for the long haul, plan on eventually using to tow a 5th wheel. In the meantime will be my commuter vehicle and camper tower. A few questions: when on the 4adodge site and building my vehicle I can't choose the HO turbodiesel and an automatic transmission at the same time, only choice is 6spd manual. And, when the choice of engine is shown, its either HO turbodiesel 24 valve, or just diesel 24 valve, I thought all the Cummins on the 2500 were turbodiesel. Also, anyone hear about the likelyhood of adjustable pedals? I heard they were coming out on the 2002 but haven't seen any. And finally, what about MPG? With load and without. I really need to hear from a few people on this one, Ford and Dodge. Oh, BTW, husband want Dodge, I want Ford, who will prevail? Thanks in advance,



Marjie F

 

[BCFAST]

OH, Margie....

... this is quite a dilemma... the Ford is a nice vehicle. I agree with you that it is a nice looking vehicle, and there are some features that I prefer over the Dodge. However, when push-comes-to-shove, the decision is truely a no-brainer! You will hear stories on this thread (I'm sure!) about fellas who owned Ford trucks, and after living with them for a while, learned to hate the ride, the handling and the lousy mileage... not to mention the school bus- sounding motor. Personally, this is my second Dodge. I have NO ALLIEGENCES with any marque... I bought a Cummins and the Dodge came with it! But in all fairness, I havent had a problem with the trucks... not a single window switch, or leak or rattle! My first one, a 1995, now has around 300,000 miles on it and the present owner hasnt turned a screwdriver on it, other than the gearbox. My current truck is at 103k miles and has been flawless. In my opinion, Dodge's big short-comming to Ford was in the brakes... but the new trucks are sporting 4-wheel disks and I think the playing field is level. Since you are in this vehicle for "the long haul", the Cummins is THE only way to go in a pickup. Still not convinced? Go down to the truck stop and look at what's under all those big hoods... not a single V8 in the bunch... all straight sixes!! As for the decision of HO or automatic... if you are going to tow, buy the manual. If you prefer the auto, a simple computer addition will yield more power than you'd know what to do with! Enjoy!

 

[chuck3]

All the cummins are turbo, the HO stands for high output and is only avail. in the 6sp. IMO the Dodge is the way to go if you plan on keeping the truck for the longhaul. The Eng. will last forever with a love & care.

 

[jwilliams3]

First off,

Dont buy the Ford, the Powerstroke diesel is an automotive quality diesel engine.

The Mileage of the Powerstroke Diesel is at best 15 MPG on the highway.

Life expectancy of the Powerstroke is about 200,000 Miles at best,

besides it has a complicated injection system.



The Cummins straight 6 5. 9 Liter engine is of Heavy Duty Diesel quality (1050 lbs in weight, check the thread on Piston Rod comparisons) as this same engine used in Ford F650, F750 Medium Duty

Delivery trucks, Freightliner Ambulances, Motorhomes, The list goes on.



Answers to your questions, Yes all Cummins 5. 9's are Turbo Charged.

Minimum Life expectancy of the Cummins 5. 9L is 400,000 miles with marginal maintenance, baby it and it will run 750,000miles.

You cannot choose the Automatic transmission with the 245 Horse, 505Ft lb. model because of the torque limitations of the stock Chrysler transmission.



Mileage concerns, the First 20,000 miles or so you'll get about 18 MPG.

After the engine gets broken in a bit on the highway empty you can acheive 21-22MPG even better with the 6 speed manual.

If your going to do most of your driving around town go with the auto.

If your doing alot of heavy pulling get a manual.

 

[Dr.Evil]

OHH BOY!!!! You Guys are whipping Your Connecting Rod Pictures out again! If You'd check the facts the PSD weights within about 15 pounds of what the little 6-cyl. Cummins weighs... . And the service life rating is as long as the Cummins. Buy the truck You like and don't worry about the engine as long as it's a diesel. Maybe You'll find that Dodge Dealer that wanted to sell Someone off fd.com a V-8 or V-10 Cummins Diesel! Like someone said here Last time You guys had this discussion, trucks have inline-6 cyl. engines and Locomotives have V-8''s and V-12's. It depends more on What Fit's than if one is "Better" than the other. I'd like to test drive a Cummins and see if I can get the same great mileage You guys claim to get. I've averaged just over 18. 5 MPG over the last 170K over the last 5-1/2 yrs. Seems odd to Me Marjii spent $35, to join TDR to ask this one question... .

 

[jwilliams3]

Dr. Evil,

I dont just claim to get that mileage, I do get it.



Oh yeah Dr.

Can you list what other vehicles the Powerstroke is used in?

I forgot to mention the Cummins ISB is also used in tractors and boats, ahh and of course LARGER FORD TRUCKS!! hmm why arent they using powerstrokes in those?----Even Ford knows Cummins is a better engine.



Even Allison knows it, thats why they are developing their

hybrid electric medium duty transmission with a Cummins 5. 9L and not a powerstroke or duramax.



Cummins Received Fords coveted Q1 supplier award for Top Quality.

Navistar/Powerstroke has never received this award.

 

[pfalero@aol.com]

I spent the $35 because compared to $38,000+ for a new truck it seemed worth it. Also, I have a friend who is a member here and he told me I could get good sound advice from Dodge & Ford owners alike. Thanks for the replies, hope for more. Not to sound too pushy, but does anyone know of a good Ford Diesel site?



Marjie

 

[mikel]

The ford site that is similar to the TDR is www.ford-diesel.com



Both are good trucks, and based only on my first truck I'd tell you to go buy the Ford. My first Dodge ('99 qc auto 2wd 2500) had awful brakes and worse steering. I nearly crashed that stupid truck several times due to the random brake pull (that happened most often in emergency stops) and loose steering. It made for a wild ride in traffic or anywhere that there wasn't a little extra room.



But then I got the one I have now. Somehow Dodge fixed EVERYTHING that was wrong with the '99. The new one steers great and has excellent brakes that don't pull or create surprises. The HO is a blast, even stock it has tons of power.



My advice is to drive them both, preferably overnight so that you can get some good seat time and then decide for yourself. If you take even reasonable care of them either one will last alot longer than most people will want to drive the same truck.



Good luck,

Mike



P. S. The cummins does sound better that the PSD in my not so humble opinion



[edited because I can't spell]

 

[bmddiesel]

Dearest Dr. Evil:

Believe it or not, I'm another one of those guys who decided to spend $35. 00 for a membership. I'm actually in my second year so its $70. 00.

TDR and Ford-Diesel are the best information resources I have found and well worth the cash. I can afford a $70. 00 investment. I can not afford a $40,000. 00 mistake.

My view.

later,

bmd

 

[Pit Bull]

Marjie

You will want to buy the Ford after all of the comparisons. The reason is that the Dodge Cummins 4x4 is a "Mans" truck. It has features that attract men. Example the big semi styling, the Med duty Cummins engine (Sounds like a Semi, Fords sound like weenie UPS trucks). Its higher off the ground (harder for short Women to get into). It's just a Mans truck. Now I am not saying that you aren't different. (I don't know you) But the odds are that you will want the Ford, and that is fine, its a good truck. Just remember your husband will always want to have the Dodge.

Signed

Tim the Tool Man Taylor

 

[Dr.Evil]

JWILLIAMS3 - I bet I know who You work for too. And it isn't Navistar is it. I've worked for 2nd tier automotive OEM's and Yes, Q-1 is nice, Does it mean You make the most wonderful products in the Universe? No. I've seen Cummins 855 blocks sawn in two from broken wrist pins, pushrods hammered all to heck from failure, so I know Cummis break down too and All that carnage at power levels You guys claim to be exceeding easily with 359 CID. I've even been stranded MANY times by them, both 6-cyl. and V-8 Cummins'. Last 2 companies I worked for were ISO Certified, and Yes, Sometimes Our Custoers had problems with Our machines. Two Customers in particular had problems with ALL our machines. Even ones that worked for years faultlessly at another plant. I too joined TDR about 8-10 months ago to start researching My next truck purchase. Cummins may have the Ford Q-1 award, but Navistar has the Contract for the next 5 yrs and is working on the new V-6 Gen II PSD for 1/2 ton pickups so Ford must not be too unhappy with Int'l Truck & Eng. Co. . What's Cummins doing? My Son is going to school over in Indiana by You in West Lafayette; One of His Prof's is a past plant Mgr. for CAT, Who also has a plant located in Lafayette. CAT made a prototype V-8 diesel for GM before the Duramax. Guess the truck couldn't handle the HP and torque. I bet it was HEUI too, since it's actually a CAT design. THATS the engine I want in MY next truck. I was looking for a CAT when I bought My PSD, and I bought the closest thing I could get to one! And Navistar uses their T444-E in trucks up to 30K+# GVWR. I see a TON of busses & single axle delivery trucks with them. I'd prefer the DT-466E myself for that application. That's what We used at FARMALL. And Mercury uses the T444-E in a marine application too. I don't know what Allison is doing with their hybred engine/transmission project. I've Never driven an Allison Equipped truck I liked, and there's been several. OHHHH News Flash - Did You guys know that the NEW Gen II PSD is going to be built in an old CUMMINS (ONAN Actually) PLANT? Down in Huntsville, AL. I though that was real interesting when I read the article in the local paper.

 

[Wheaties]

Margie,



Both the Ford and the Dodge are good trucks with good diesels.



I hear the pedals will be adjustable when the new body style is available for the 2500/3500 trucks.



You get 10hp more with the HO but it only comes with the six speed, still a great transmission. Consider a 3. 55 rear end--you'll have a better top end. Also, you don't even use 1st gear unless you are towing.



The non-HO is also turbo-charged, develops 235hp, and comes with the 5-speed or the automatic.



I have the HO and got 16. 5mpg new, but now at 18,000 miles I'm getting more like 18. 5 and have gone over 20mpg on a long trip. I'm very happy with it!



Some side steps will help you get into either truck.



Matt

 

[Briar Hopper]

Marjie, the Ford might be a better choice if you prefer to have all your mechanical work done at a dealership.

Both trucks kind of equal out, the Cummins is the better engine, the Ford might be the better truck... .

I'm annoyed at the amount of trouble I've had with the steering components on what is essentially a brand new Dodge. And I'm not the only one.

The brakes on the 2002 are supposed to be better.

Both trucks have their own unique problems. I'd read this web site and the Ford web site as much as I could, if I were you.

 

[KatDiesel]

Drive both, buy which one you like the best. Both trucks are good trucks.



The newer 24v's and the Powerstroke will get about the same milage.

 

[DieselDoghouse]

Course, Marjie, I've heard of two cattle dogs - one likes the ford cause she CAN jump in it, the other likes the Dodge cause he's smart and wants to be COOL too! (LOL)

 

[FFutch]

Diesel mechanics know...

The correct configuration. Mr evil,how many 855s have you actually laid a wrench on. I've worked on quite a few. Also Cats,Detroits(60s and 2 strokes),Macks and even 6. 9s,7. 3s and dt466s. I have seen more than one that was ventilated,from all brands. These are few and far between tho. and usually caused by driver or mechanic error(yes we are human). I've also seen most Cummins go from 500k to 1 million miles. The same holds true with Cat and Detroit IN-LINE SIXES. They've all tried V configurations in trucks and have since went exclusively with the proven design. Now granted they still all have their inherent flaws. Cats leak around the front and rear structure. Cummins has had some cam problems in the old 855s. and injector problems in the electronic motors(alot of this was from running the wrong fuel filter). And I remember we replaced 4 sixty series detroits in one week with gaping holes in them from wrist pin problems. The point to all of this is you'll have a hard time convincing me that a V configuration will last as long as an in-line. I also work on super-dutys here at work. As far as the"fit" thing I would rather work all day on my Cummins than 10 minutes on one of these . I installed a pac-brake on my truck,it took 3-4 hrs. takiing my time and bulls**tting with the other guys in the shop. Did a Pac-brake install on a 99 F-250 it took 8hrs at all I had . Well sorry so long winded ,just some ramblings from a guy in the trenches turning wrenches . Doug

 

[RottnDogue]

ROFLMAO

Originally posted by Big Toy

Marjie

You will want to buy the Ford after all of the comparisons. The reason is that the Dodge Cummins 4x4 is a "Mans" truck. It has features that attract men. Example the big semi styling, the Med duty Cummins engine (Sounds like a Semi, Fords sound like weenie UPS trucks). Its higher off the ground (harder for short Women to get into). It's just a Mans truck. Now I am not saying that you aren't different. (I don't know you) But the odds are that you will want the Ford, and that is fine, its a good truck. Just remember your husband will always want to have the Dodge.

Signed

Tim the Tool Man Taylor

 

[Briar Hopper]

So if that theory of Big Toy's is to hold water, the Dodge is a man's truck, the Ford is a woman's truck, then what is the Chevy? A transvestite's truck?

I know plenty of cute women that prefer the Dodge. I also know a couple of big bad dudes that prefer the Ford. Don't know any clowns that prefer the Chevy, I usually surround myself with intelligent people. We need to spare poor Marjie such boorish talk , and help her out.

 

[RottnDogue]

For those that are unsure, the signed by (person to be blamed) is what I found funny... ...

Originally posted by Briar Hopper

So if that theory of Big Toy's is to hold water, the Dodge is a man's truck, the Ford is a woman's truck, then what is the Chevy? A transvestite's truck?

I know plenty of cute women that prefer the Dodge. I also know a couple of big bad dudes that prefer the Ford. Don't know any clowns that prefer the Chevy, I usually surround myself with intelligent people. We need to spare poor Marjie such boorish talk , and help her out.

 

[pfalero@aol.com]

Hey Briar Hopper, thanks, you gave me a good laugh.

Well, decision day is near, I've got excellent prices on both trucks.

Am leaning towards the Ford, but if I was sure about it I wouldn't be asking for advice here.

Marjie