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California's Power in Perspective

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I just like to throw Gasoline (odd to say in this site eh?) on the fire and share a little something about California and what this state does. LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!! #ad
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Dear America-

You (America) have engaged in some finger wagging lately because California doesn't have enough electricity to meet its needs. The rest of the country (including George W. Bush and his energy secretary Spencer Abraham, who wants Californians to suffer through blackouts as justification for drilling for oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge) seems to be just fine with letting Californians dangle in the breeze without enough power to meet their needs. They laugh at Californians' frivolity.

Well, everybody. Here's how it really is:

California ranks 48th in the nation in power consumed per person. Only Wyoming and Idaho use less power(kw hours) per person.

California grows more than half the nation's fruit, nuts and vegetables. We're keeping them. We need something to eat when the power goes out. We grow 94 percent or more of the nation's almonds, artichokes, dates, figs,
kiwifruit, olives, persimmons, pistachios, prunes, raisins and walnuts. Hope you won't miss them.

California is the nation's number one dairy state. We're keeping our dairy products. We'll need plenty of fresh product since our refrigerators can't be relied upon. Got milk?

We Californians are gonna keep all our hi-tech software in state. Silicon Valley is ours, along with Intel, AMD and many others. Without enough electricity, which you feel you must keep to yourselves, we just plain don't have enough software or chips to spare.

We're keeping all our airplanes. California builds a good percentage (60%) of the commercial airliners available to fly you
people to where you want to go. When yours wear out, you'd better hope Boeing's Washington plant can keep you supplied. There isn't enough electricity here to allow us to export any more planes than we need ourselves.

And while we're at it, we're keeping all our high-tech aerospace stuff, too, like the sophisticated weapons systems that let you sleep at night, not worried you might wake up under the rule of some foreign kook. Oh, yeah, and if you want to make a long-distance call, remember where the satellite components and tracking systems come from, Not to mention the many telecommunication hubs are
located in California. Who knows? Maybe you could get back in the habit of writing letters.

Want to see a blockbuster movie this weekend? Come to California. We make them here. Since we'll now have to make them with our own electricity, we're keeping them.
Even if we shot them somewhere else, the labs, printing facilities, editing facilities, and sound facilities are nearly all here. Nearly 90% of all motion picture blockbusters are at least partly if not completely mixed in California.

Want some nice domestic wine? We produce over 17 million gallons per year. We'll need all it to drown our sorrows when we think about the fact that no matter how many California products we export to make the rest of America's lives better, America can't see its way clear to help us out with a little electricity at a fair price. You can no longer have any of our wine.

You all complain that we don't build enough power plants. Well, you don't grow enough food, write enough software, make enough movies, build enough airplanes and defense
systems or make enough wine.

This is your last warning, America. Lighten (us) up before it's too late.

Love,
The Californians


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1996 Ram 2500 4x2, Auto, Banks Power Pak, FABTEC 2" lift, Rancho RS9000, 265x75x16 on custom wheels, Line-X, Toolbox, Westin Steps, Lund Stainless... ..... More to come
 
I'm still waitin' to purchase ocean-front property in Arizona. #ad
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"Livin' in California is like livin' in a bowl of granola... .
What ain't fruits, and nuts, is flakes"
Don't drink wine, most movies now are lame, hate milk, basic software works for me, space junk just ends up fallin' on some's head. #ad
Next?
 
Dkevdog,

From what I understand Kalifornia's energy problems come from basicly 2 reasons:

1) Price caps on energy
2) Limits on supply (produced in the state)

Price caps prevent the price of energy from rising as costs go up. This causes the producers to lose money on the sale (the state is talking about giving them money now--your paying them with higher taxes anyways. ) It also prevents people from making an attempt to conserve more than they are or looking for alternative sources.

As far as alternative sources, the state will not allow more power plants to be built. If there are more people selling an item (electricity) most people will purchase the lower priced item.

My point here is that the problem was created by the government. It didn't have to be this way. The examples you cite are not. There is nothing stopping anyone from making movies, writing software or doing almost all of those other things just as well elsewhere.

I don't think that this trend is limited to Kalifornia. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that several eastern states (NY and Mass ?) also have a supply problem. I hope the other states will learn from California. I do not want to see the federal government assuming control of the energy buisness just because some states have made some stupid laws.

Michael

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2000 QC 2500 5sp swb 2wd 4. 10
PGP key id:0x8BB389F7 Finger Print: BD0B 4CCE BB08 0BCB A8DD F4A3 9CBA B96B


[This message has been edited by mdlowry (edited 05-30-2001). ]
 
The following info is not necessarily aimed at California rammers but Californians in general... .
As bad as things may get in California, take it from me, they are much, much worse here in Texas. Things are really bad. The only coffee they know about here is Folgers or Maxwell House. None of that funny sounding stuff. Also people carry guns everywhere. It's practically the wild west around here. There are diesel pickups everywhere and they are noisy and belch smoke all the time. They certainly don't have enough laws against stuff around here, why in most areas around here you can leave your garden hose uncoiled in your yard over night WITHOUT A PENALTY #ad
So listen, what ever you do DON'T COME HERE. It's just like "Deliverance" or something. STAY AWAY. It's for your own good #ad


Glad I could help.
Daniel
 
See! I KNEW this would be fun #ad
! I think our power problem is due largely in part to the fact that there are TOO MANY #%$^@ING PEOPLE!!!! ALL OF YOU WHO WERE NOT BORN HERE GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME!! #ad
Seriously folks- I did spend a number of years in Southwestern Colorado, and I do know who how the other half live. If it weren't for the wife #ad
I'd still be there. As for carrying guns... ... ... ... ... ..... Well we all carry guns too, its usually to shoot all the Flakes, Nuts and Prozac wackos! #ad
Not to mention to guard the expensive smokin' deisels some of us have!!

Kev

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1996 Ram 2500 4x2, Auto, Banks Power Pak, FABTEC 2" lift, Rancho RS9000, 265x75x16 on custom wheels, Line-X, Toolbox, Westin Steps, Lund Stainless... ..... More to come
 
Although I'm a ca native(not by choice) I disagree with the first post- the tree huggers control the ca government through the special interests you know $$$ talks bullowney walks- we have the facilities in place to make our own elect BUT the tree huggers have put the political pressure to close most of the older plant because of their environmental damage (TOO MUCH SMOKE) and now the tree huggers have the general public saying the phrase " NOT IN MY BACK YARD" to every project from rehab houses to new cogeneration plants- remember this attitude is brought to you by the same types that made berkeley a nuclear free zone but can't turn off the two nuclear reactors in their city limits- as for the guns- if the left coast would addopt a right to pack law- crime would drop- LONG LIVE THE WILD WEST!!!!

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Member SJ Ram Runners
 
Deliverance? Is that a pizza delivery joint? You got how many million in Texa$$ and only 12 last names, sorry man, gets me to wondering!

I get a kick out of you heyseeds yakkin and blabbing about something you know little or nothing about, then when you get honest we find that you lived in CA at one time!

Kev hit it on the head, go back where you came from cause the majority of the CA population are "transplants", so if CA is so phucked up... get the picture! Take your east coast, I LOVE NY, latte sippin, crap and get... don't let the door hit your arrogant eastern A$$... I'm done... this is fun and so darn politically incorrect!

One last thing, when you get a flood or hurricane damage. . hang! Its time all of the UNITED STATES stand on their own... makes sense in Texa$$ !

Mike

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9535hundred
 
While we're on the topic of pick'n on Texas, (my how this has progressed) Do I remember hearing correctly that the two largest (and thanks to us) profitable corporations selling the West its power are headquarted in Texas?

Gee, No wonder Bush won't interefere with the profit margins of his own State... ... ... . #ad


And furthermore... ..... Aren't there parts of that country that don't have runnin water let alone electricity yet??? #ad
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"The state acted really stupid, by following totally senseless environmental and other policies, but since we have a huge population and make a lot of stuff, stop blaming us for acting stupid. "

It doesn't cut it with me.

I would geuss that the majority of Californians still don't realize it's the policies of thier state that have created the situation. Nobody else is to blame. Further, nobody else HAS THE SOLUTION!!!

California HAS to fix it's own problems, it can't be done by generating more power in Wenatchee or Arizona, or forcing power companies who are highly reluctant to commit themselves to sales they don't know they can make in the future - at a price that encourages the practice to continue - a nice little reward for suffering from stupid policies.

The political left has run California for quite some time, and the results of thier policies has started to become obvious - WAY serious infrastructure problems, and yet the politicians blame everyone else. And, from what I can see here, so do a lot of the people, who refuse to admit that... Stupid is as stupid does, and the consequences are more serious than they want to let on.

We here in the Pacific Northwest are scheduled for some pretty tight electric power problems ourselves - and a lot of it is due to us draining down the reservoirs on the Columbia to generate power for California, when we have a drought and should have been saving it for summer and fall. Why should WE suffer? Why should we go cold and dark because some people (who, by the way, have no solid scientific foundation for demanding so) think that draw-downs "help the fish". The results weren't clear, yet the meatheads in government still waste our precious water - so they can say that they "care" and that they "are doing something".

So, Californians... When it's dark, sweltering hot, or perhaps even dangerous, from a lack of electricity... Just remember this: The policies pursued in your state brought it upon you. The blame rests on precisely nobody else's shoulders. And further - you could have had clean air, clean water AND power too, if rational thinking, rational policies, and who lot less emotional decisions had been made.
 
Power Wagon,
Doesn't the Pacific Northwest IMPORT electricity from CA during the winter? I seem to remember seeing a 'map' that shows the flow of electrons going both ways depending upon the time of year. I don't recall the reasons behind this sharing of power - capacity, environmental, save the salmon type stuff or what - but it doesn't really matter does it?

Brian
 
I'm so tired of hearing about this "socalled" CA power problem. The meadia plays this as a recient problem that just appeared on Bush's watch. If Gay Davis wanted to solve this problem, he could have long ago, but he would rather have the people of CA suffer with blackout and have people getting killed at non-working traffic lights and other incidents so he and the Dems can have some manufactured issue to bash Bush with.

From what I have read, there are 2 nuke plants that are offline, if these were put back online, the electricty problem would be solved. But apparently the dopes in CA have put into their constitution that there is to be no nuke power in CA. Well, if the people of the "referendum" state sit in the dark long enough and watch their businesses and homes get robbed by looters and businesses move out of CA to get reliable energy; they should remove that stupid amendment, get the nukes back online, build some new natural gas generating stations and stop bothering the rest of the country with their **** 'in and moaning. Man, if this problem doesn't show how useless and intellectually vacant Gay Davis and the CA gov't is, I don't know what does!

Here in NH, we have the highest electricty rates in the country last I checked, and you don't see NH residents whining to the media like little school girls for price caps and other commi pinko "socalled" solutions.

If we want a growing economy and an increasing better standard of living its going to take new sources of energy ... period!! There is no way to conserve your way to prosperity. So until we can get the holy grail of energy to work properly (nuclear fusion), start solving your problems with what is available now!
 
Originally posted by Dkevdog:
You all complain that we don't build enough power plants. Well, you don't grow enough food, write enough software, make enough movies, build enough airplanes and defense systems or make enough wine.


Fine, I vote we all pitch in to build a nice high wall all around the state to keep us no good Americans out. #ad
We'll get some Boeing built AWACS to patrol the borders to make sure we don't fly in and some Newport News built Battleships to make sure we don't sail in.

Oh yea, and this will keep y'all from disturbing us out here too... #ad


(BTW, North Dakota has more missiles than Kalifornia does so I'm not worried about defense... ) #ad
:p

Have fun,
Joe #ad


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Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
3in straight pipe, pump turned up 20%, ISSPRO pyro and boost - For now
 
Man, I'm glad I read this thread, this looks like fun. Didn't realize Texas was as about as bad off as Oklahoma. Sorry I can't help you Daniel, but we're having to drink Cain's Hotel & Restaurant Blend coffee here. Haven't had a latte in I don't know how long? Got thirsty last night and the only thing to drink around the house was some water straight from the tap, some wine made right here in Oklahoma, and some Black Jack. I just absolutely yearned for some Sanoma Valley white zinfandel. I truly feel bad about all the problems in Kalifornia, but we have plenty here to contend with too. We have to put up with oil wells, gas wells, refineries, lakes all over the **** state with hydro-electric power generators. We've even got some of those nasty old coal and gas powered generating plants! Yuck! To top all of that off, not too far east of here in Russellville, Arkansas there is one of those horrible, frightening Atomic Power Generating Plants. Oh gosh, Oh gee!! With all those nasty refineries around here it keeps the price of diesel down and I feel so ashamed and guilty about that. We did away with our vehicle inspection law just a week or so ago. Now, we'll have rampaging pollution from all those old beat up diesel pickem-up trucks. See, we have problems too and Dan Rather hasn't said jack **** about us poor old Okies. See, you folks in Kalifornia don't have all the woes. Back quite a few years ago, some of the family moved to Kalifornia. I think they went there to pick something strange you grow out there. Anyway, the rest of us stayed and boy are we glad!!!

Couldn't resist this,
Dave
 
Kev is right TEXA$$ is profiting like mad through their price gouging and raping of CA... they fail to mention, or perhaps recognize, that they do not own the parent corperation JAPAN DOES. So take you patriotic yappin and stick it, you may be thee least patriotic state in the union.

When Corpus Cristi gets slammed by another hurricane..... rot! The Feds and your neighbors are not here to help you, better yet we outta rape you... get it? Ya gotta learn that you can't keep rebuilding in a unsuited area! What is your govs policy on building your cities... . ya gotta plan boys.

The only good thing about TEXA$$ is your drive through liquor stores #ad
Ask anyone who has lost a loved one to a drunk driver! #ad


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9535hundred

POWERWAGON, Can you say intertie? Electricty goes to the demand... all by it self! And yes we send some to you. Why is it that folks fail to realize that the ENTIRE country is on a power grid?

[This message has been edited by Statland (edited 05-31-2001). ]
 
If you're going to bash Kalifornia at least spell the cities/counties correctly. It's Sonoma, not Sanoma. oops, maybe that's the the fonetic spelling down in Oaklahoma #ad


Brian
 
Oh, what fun!

California. Keep all that crap. Really. Why should I have an apple shipped from 2000 miles away when I can get one locally? Or corn, or soy, or carrots, or beans, or melons, or... .

Got milk. Local dairy delivers it (Royal Farm).

Oh, and Intel is next door to me in colorado springs, my neighbor works for them, so you can keep your chips, and the bubble economy that you crashed.

We have wine on the west slope that ain't as good, but tolerable enough, and we make better beer here anyway. Please keep your earthquakes and mudslides, we have enough fires here already too. We already have your traffic, and hired the fools you fired to widen our roads thinking that will help.

You may grow half the countries fruits, nuts and vegatables, but the rest of them live in your state too. Keep the whole package.

Don't fool yourself into thinking you have control of the satellites. Norad has something to say about all your satellites. Lockheed is putting them up there (sometimes), and Shriver AFB is controlling the GPS systems anyway.

Denver has the communications market covered, california is a wart on someone's butt when compared to.

In the rare event I do fly, Boeing will be just fine. I don't watch movies much any more.

If you want to play hardball, Here in Colorado we'll just quit flushing our toilets and see what you do without water.

Ok, it ain't just California. It is everyone, ME INCLUDED. We signed up for this **** by building houses and lifestyles that plug into the gas mains, the electrical grids, and the water lines. Then we build huge inefficient houses to keep heated, purchase gadgets that use power all the time, and we build fountains and swimming pools and overpopulate areas that don't have sustainable water supplies like here along the front range of Colorado.

How to fix it? Not sure. But California especially could spend some of that huge amount of money they spend in one month buying expensive power and put in some photovotalic cells at 100,000 residences, and back charge the grid, and sell some of that expensive power for a change. Or some wind generators off the ocean. Or activate a Nuke plant. But instead, they flush the money, not invest it, and keep running out.

Then, they could quit washing their Bmw's.

And the stupid folks in my state should not be allowed to pipe water 100's of miles from the west slope so we can water our lawns that were imported from areas where they need it for ag.

We signed up for it. The californians elected the folks that made the policy, put up with developers and industry that were wasteful, and are paying for it now. Colorado is next (might be drought, might be gas), but we did it to ourselves too because we sat here and did nothing about it.

Just kidding, :^)!, but serious too. We are all in this together whether we want to admit it or not. I know I am just as guilty as anyone, so this is really aimed at all of us, not at kev individually!

jon.
 
Hey Kalifornia. Texas created a law stating that the electrical reserve must be 15% over demand, or they have to pay market rate to maintain the reserve. (I remember reading something like this, so correct me if I am wrong) This is an incentive for the electrical companies to keep building power plants. At the flick of a switch, Texas can isolate its electrical grid from the rest of the country and we can keep the AC cranked.

Lets sumarize this.
Texas builds powerplants like crazy, and we have no power problems.

California cant build a shack without an environmental study, and has have no electricity to support the current residents. Hmmmm Sounds like a federal issue requiring price caps to me... .

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98 QC 2500 2WD 12 Valve Automatic, 3. 54 Mag-Hytec transmission pan. DTT Valve Body. Wrap around black Grill Guard (BIG solid steel one. #ad
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[This message has been edited by Conleyjo (edited 05-31-2001). ]
 
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Conleyjo, You must get your info from the Enquirer or maybe from them psycic aholes
The grid is maintained at all times, and there is not a isolation switch between states.

I like Dubbya, but it is obvious that he is a Texan and being a stubborn man to assure his homestate does well. $$$$ Mark my word he will have to back off and accept the fact that unity comes before dollars.

CA is the envy of most other states, if it weren't why would it be so overpopulated with former states natives. You boys can yak all you want but the truth will NEVER change, #ad
CA is the reason folks headed west in the first place. So advertise your ignorance, but please pay attention so as to make this a learning experience rather than another dustbowl, inbred, silly game like making babies with a cousin. #ad


The last good things out of Texa$$ were ZZ Top and Stevie Ray, and I'm not sure if they were all native to the dustbowl. Heck, that Dallas show sucked!

I never understood it but the Okie's are one he!! of a lot smarter and kinder than the Taxans I have met, and your'e a wink apart!

Mike

Get lit if you want but I told you the truth! I do not see anyone packing up to move to Texas! #ad
All I see heading there is our toxic waste... you guys will do anything for a stinking buck!;eek:

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9535hundred

48th in the countrys quality of edchewcasin! Ya otta be ashamed! Go to the library and check out that book they have... get some smarts and come on back!

[This message has been edited by Statland (edited 05-31-2001). ]
 
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