Call the new engine by its proper name!

[JSchooley]

Don't mean to beat this to death, but the ears are not linear. Although 10 dB reduction in noise is 1/10 the power, according to an article I saw last week, the ear will perceive a drop of about 1/2 the sound level.



This is of course true at a particular frequency. If you analyze the the wonderful music from this engine it will consist of many frequencies at many levels. Some sound are sharp some are dull.



Unless there are specifics on the measurement, the 10 dB reduction sounds great (pardon the pun), but only the ear will tell.

 

[Braveair78]

At the risk of beating a dead horse...whoa I saw him flinch

I'm glad we're all up to date on our dB's but, I'm

up late, can't sleep, and well, more importantly

can't resist.

Think about it ... . it's called a deciBell

as in Alexander Graham "Bell" (both of his parents

were deaf, the telephone was an attempt to help

deaf people hear). And he found that the hearing

sensitivity was logarithmic in relation to sound

power levels. He discovered that the smallest difference that the ear could perceptibly determine was (voices from heaven please) 1dB or roughly 30% change in power (trust me it's close enough for the phone company). That's why it's little d Capital B, to pay homage to the mans

ingenuity in dragging us out of the dark ages.

Stick around next week when I describe why the

earth is not perfectly round... . but, I digress,

... whew... time for a wine-spritzer and a curry.

 

[Rotty]

For you mathematical wisses, 8 dB reduction is 1 / 6. 3095734448019324943436013662234 reduction is noise. A 10 dB reduction is 1/10 the apparent noise. God,I hate beng and engineer sometimes. The real question is how long before it will be BOMBed???????

 

[SixPac]

I thought I read someplace (TDR?) that the 2003 models would have a Mercedes Diesel in them. Any truth to that for the forseeable future?



Thanks,

 

[Tomeygun]

i can tell you with 100% accuracy that the st. louis truck plant ran a 3500 with a mercedes diesel as a test pilot, (in may I think)

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Animal





This is incorrect; the different between RF (radio frequency) and VF (voice frequency) is the reference point. Basically 0 DB (VF) is referenced at 1 watt, and 0 DBm (RF) is referenced at 1 milliwatt. The incremental ratio for both is the same; 1 DB of increase is a 26% increase, 2 DB = 59%, 3 DB = 100%. When you change in 10 DB increments, 10 DB = 10 times as much power, 20 DB = 100 times more, 30 DB = 1000 times more, etc.

Actually, DD was *almost* correct, IIRC.



Yes, 3dB is a factor of two change in power, and 10dB is an order of magnitude change in power.



However, in audio, a 3dB change is, shall I say, just perceptible, whereas a 10dB change in sound power *seems* twice as loud.



Fest3er

 

[Tomeygun]

FYI =



my contact at the st. louis truck plant drove both pilot trucks last night. one a 5. 7 hemi, one a new cummins,

he said that the 5. 7 hemi was amazing, very similar rev style as the 4. 7L v8 (very quick), AND the cummins was so quite that he had to pop hood to check and make sure it wasn't a gasser. (he said it sounded like a gasser with slighty more aggresive tone)



ALSO about the mercedes diesel, a pilot was ran but imediatly put on truck, sources say that the idea was scraped due to cummins loyalty and the mercedes diesel durability issues.



cya

 

[BK]

To to clear up the dbing issue... I've seen some accurate answers that we debated... .



All db levels aren't the same, wattage and sound pressure are different. Thats the point...



db when used for wattage. . (rf 1ghz, or electrical line power at 60hz. . what ever. . but "wattage" as the unit of power measurement)

3db is a doubling or "halfing" - when related to wattage.



When it comes to sound pressure levels or voltage... or someother force...

6db is a doubling or "halfing".



an order of magnatude change related to sound pressure means x10 or an increase of 20 db.

a reduction to 1/10 corresponds to a decrease of 20 dB, denoted as a -20 dB change.



Part of the reasons for the nonlinearty of the relationship is due to the logarithmic nature of the dB.



Please don't ask for formulas... (aske Rotty, seems he's got them at the tip of his fingers, I've been in marketing too long) you'll make me do more digging than I want to. . went through this last year when we were trying to compare the loudness of generators.



just for reference, normal speach is about 70db, a whisper (I guess it depends how drunk the whisper is. . ) is about 20db.



my the db be with you. .



bob

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

in my stereo building days we dealt with spl. For stereo use 3 dB appeared to the ear to be twice as loud and 6 dB was twice as loud. My current setup tested about 137 dB but with low end testing equipment. I figured I should be in the high 140s. I need to go to a dB drag to get it checked with some good equipment. I tell you at that amount of pressure I find it difficult to breathe normally. Its more forced. Guess the definition of loud comes into question. 10 dB quiter is too quite for me. Ill have to remove the muffler and cat just to feel like I own a diesel.





Ive heard of pilot injection but post primary is something new. I wonder what the benifit is. Lower emissions likely. I eagerly await the magic box wizards approach to power improvements.

 

[RKohn]

Didn't Toyota make a model called Echo?

Newer does not always mean better. Is Cummins making them better or just cheaper? Think about it. Have we had more problems with the VP44 vs. the P7100?



:--)



Ok, I said it, flame away!!!







:-{}

 

[lgibson]

The engine is shipping to Banks is a 5. 9 with 393 hp and 600 ft lbs and is simular to the one in the G3s. Cummins is calling it Salt Quake, most likely because that is the base engine for Banks' sidewinder project. I don't think there should be a fancy name for it. Cummins says it all

 

[Steve Roseman]

All the squabling over noise will be irrelevant. In a year or so, the aftermarket guys will have a noise switch for you. You want it to sound like a Cummins, flip the switch. You pull into the drivethru and don't want the noise, flip the switch.

I wish my P7100 had a switch for pilot injection, would be nice at times instead of shutting the motor down.

 

[mopars1]

The Cummins Common Rail Engine in Europe is called the "ECHO" because of all the changes we are getting but they also have the rear mounted gear train. We are not getting the rear mounted gear train, so the engine we are getting is not an "ECHO" I don't know the call letters of the engine but on the order screen they are still the same as last year.



Also, I don't care about the dB war and what reduction means what. How much difference it is makes no difference to me as long as the power is still there. How can you argue with 555 ft pounds from the factory?



The Cummins rep I spoke with stated the fact that a change in 10dB up is doubling the sound we hear. So a change in 10dB down would be half the sound. I know nothing about how this is measured and don't want to debate it. I am just stating what the Cummins rep stated and the 8dB change would translate into an 80% change in the amount of engine noise we hear, and I have heard the new engine and it is quiet!

 

[jwilliams3]

Mopars1,

Actually all the new Common Rail engines are an ECHO platform,

yes the DCX version does not have the rear gear train but it is still the ECHO style engine (new block and technologies).



--Justin

 

[CharlieMiller]

I am happier than a pig in slop with my 02 so the "NEW" Cummins is a non issue. But I love the sound of that beast coming down the road.

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by tomeygun

FYI AND the cummins was so quite that he had to pop hood to check and make sure it wasn't a gasser. (he said it sounded like a gasser with slighty more aggresive tone)

on NAME: call it the WS6 (wussy sounding six)



on sound measurement: keep on fellas you're half-way to a HAM license! Just learn some FCC regs, RF stuff and you're there.



on Mercedes--you'll think five-star stealers are giving away mopar/cummins stuff when you start buying Mercedes parts.



on the new truck--Make the dealer remove the muffler before you drive it off the lot--then it'll sound like GOD INTENDED IT TO-albeit less clattery.



and the POWER- good grief we all KNOW that 400+ reliable horses can be had for much less than a new truck.



Personally I'm just gonna pull my good old-fashioned 24v out and reuse it if/when I ever buy a common-rail cummins. Oo.

 

[JRG]

Mercedes Powered Ram.....

When I was at the dealer to test drive the new truck, and asked about the posibility of a Mercedes plant. He said that there was going to be one as an option to the Cummins in about two years.

:--)

JRG

 

[Pit Bull]

My opinion



I looked at the Dodge CTD as the Harley of Pickup trucks. It had a great sound and look. Anybody that wants a quiet Harley they send to the Honda shop. What they have done to the new CTD and new Dodge truck is a radical change, some will like it, some won't. I for one like Harley's not Honda's I agree that Cummins should name this new engine, not that anybody will ever mistake it for a ISB

 

[WadePatton]

Re: Mercedes Powered Ram.....

Originally posted by JRG

asked about the posibility of a Mercedes plant. He said that there was going to be one as an option to the Cummins in about two years.

:--)

JRG

From what I've seen DEALERS don't know SQUAT about trucks (or cars for that matter). Especially when it comes to speculation. It's the FORD dealers that keep saying you know what. And I've surprised a lot of dealers when I tell them that a Cummins is SIX cylinders.



Bad source of information.



Personally I feel that it'll take a few years for Cummins to recoup the R&D costs of the new engine.

 

[jwilliams3]

Cummins has an agreement on paper with DCX to supply engines exclusively until 2007, at that point I would venture to say you'll probably see Cummins again.



I heard the darn Mercedes crap 4 years ago when Daimler was taking over Chrysler.



There is a couple things that keep Dodge away from Mercedes.

1. The size of the 6. 45 I6 (I think that was the size) too big for the dog house.

2. Quality, Cummins has the #1 Quality rating (PPM and Customer satisfaction) of any Chrysler product, (Cummins@CMEP also won the Ford Q1 award for being the highest quality supplier)

3. Price the Mercedes is expensive (as with anything else they produce)



--Justin