Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Cam Change, What would you pick?

[DLane]

Looking for feedback on 24v cams. Why up picked what you did and why? I have been planning a P-pump conversion on my 2000 for about 1 1/2 years just slowly piecing parts together and waiting for a break in my schedule to due the work. Had a cam picked out but is not available from the vendor at this time and I have two weeks till I leave to guide for Elk and this is my wifes truck so I am in a real bind. The vendor tried to steer me to a marine cam that was "close" to what I wanted but the price went up 311. 00 (and thats BS)over the weekend so even though that vendor has several products I would be interested in I will NOT buy from them. I do not want to start a war on this site so will not mention the vendors name, (unless asked) just looking for info and do not have lots of research time as I need to get wrenching. Am leaning to Scheids right now even though did not really want a regrind, Help,thoughts, all very much appreciated

TIA

 

[DLane]

bump... . I gotta decide soon... . maybe if I was running down the vendor that changed their price by 311. 00 from friday till monday some one would have a opinion?

 

[paulb]

I have a Helix 2, which has the pump lobe for the mechanical pump. It also has a bolt on gear, which help keep the timing gear on, if you are going to p-pump it. Rip at Source Automotive, can set you up with what you need.



Paul

 

[DLane]

Well fellers I will apologize in advance if I wind up on a soapbox, and also though I have been hanging around this and other diesel forums for several years posting on one is not my forte so please bear with me.

The diesel performance industry as a whole is going thru major growing pains. And these forums help to spread the fire and thats great. They also make it possible for the end consumer to be much better informed on services prices and products. But not every consumer built by these sites is the type to inform themselves, to many people read the posts and then buy products because FASTANDCRAZY over at Superbadsmokinstackdiesels. whatever made 1000hp just by adding that charger/box/injector, not realizing it is the total COMBINATION that make power. Now the fallout from this is two fold, 1) every week there are new products/better products coming on the market because it is worth the time and money for R/D. 2) And this is the one that sucks, With SOME vendors it seems to have created a lack of a need for customer service, a overall distain for the customer and the reality that if they don't sell me something there are 100 other people on the phone who are not as informed and will buy the product. The concept of supply and demand is not lost on me i understand it well, but price gouging really chaps my ***. While my personal concept of whats right and fair keeps me from listing names out here for everyone/people who may never buy a upgraded/hotrod part, it also tells me if there is a genuine interest/concern for someone willing to due some research I will tell you who and what. PM me. For those of you still reading this I just ask one thing, When you get to the point of making phone calls with CC in hand ready to make a purchase, BE INFORMED on what it is your buying/why you need or want it and what it is going to due for you goals of what you want your truck to be. I started at 3:55pm yesterday,starting over with my choices for a cam. Alot of reading to be sure but thats part being informed. I sent a email last night to a vendor asking about his products and let him know the situation right up front. At the time I did not even expect a response sooner than now,this afternoon. At 8:01 my phone was ringing, Greg Hogue aka COMP461 was on the phone ready to talk camshafts. That to me is very impressive and deserves to be recognized. He is now on my short list of vendors to call. Scheids is another, always ready and willing to answer ?s even though they may not make a sale right at that moment. (and yes I am aware those are two different sides of the same diesel performance coin, in thought and theory). Again inform yourself as to prices and options you have for what you really want out of your truck. CumminsQuickserve is some of the best money i spend every year and remember: even if you don't know how to turn your own wrenches, read, learn and don't let the bone heads in the industry get the best of you.

Sorry for the long post but I am sure I can't be the only one that feels this way.

David

 

[MRoberts]

So what is your opinion on cams?

 

[DLane]

My opinion on cams... . Not everyone needs one, heck maybe I don't need one but, I am building a specialized truck, for a special purpose. I have been on a drag strip exactly 2 times in my life, never dynoed a truck, yet I had a 95 3500 with a 175hp pump that would twist a driveline before it would break 1150* pulling my 28' stock trailer. I have built many a chev gasser stroker, I should say destroker. 372 chev, 400 block 350 crank and rods. Wrap like a 327-just more cubes. Sold faster than I could turn a torgue wrench to the MickyD's parking lot crowd in the late 80s. Airflow always seemed to be the key to how good they ran. Same blocks/pistons/cranks/rods/cam, the better flowing the heads/intake the better they ran. THAT is what got me thinking about cams for the CTD. Then I read a post about a aftermarket intake... . hummmmm. What I want is a cummins that will fuel a 64mm turbine and pull a 10,000 lbs trailer at 1200* or less. All on mech injection. Why, because I understand mech injection, learned by trial and errror. Electronics are spendy and I have a love hate relationship with the VP44,so why screw with it. Maybe just the cam will be awsome, but this rig will get a ported head and aftermarket intake/exhaust before I really make any decisions. So since now I sound like a politician with no answer, just alot of words, to answre your ? I am not sure. Honestly I can't recomend any one product right now. I ordered a cam thru Greg Hogue aka COMP416, and after a 40 min conversation, I do believe he understands what it is I am trying acomplish. I will most certainatly order from him again. I will try to get pics and data up as this conversion takes place for others that may be considering the same

David

 

[Don Tanklage]

So what is your opinion on cams?

what are the specs on my current camshaft?



what are the specs avail on the different grinds?



what is the application?



what is the combination?



am i building the motor from scratch or do i have to be concerned with valve to piston clearance issues?



retainer to guide clearance issues?



keeper to guide clearance issues?



retainer to seal clearance issues?



keeper to seal clearance issues?



that is what i consider when purchasing a cam



david is right, for na stuff the head and the cam is everything



is it as important with a turbo motor? no



does it affect performance? yes



i would not spend the cash on a custom grind until i knew exactly how much lift and duration (advertised duration, dur at 020, 050, 080, and . 200" lift) my current cam had



if you dont know where you are, how are you going to know where you are going?



when building a motor from scratch the cam is the first part you buy (cuz it is the brain of a reciprocating engine). you obviously would already know the application of said motor, so you pick your cam and build everything else around it.



the intake valve closes on what stroke? the compression stroke. so you cant start building compression until it is closed (effective compression ratio). wrong cam choice can turn a motor into a turd quick style. the right cam choice and no one with the same wt/displ ratio (and the same combo) can touch you. then there is the whole thing about every motor being a little different and that is why the trial and error comes into play. the dyno is only a tool and just because one cam makes more power on the dyno than another, it does not necessarily mean that it will get you down the track quicker. thats my opinion on cams



don

 

[isb360]

DLane... good monologue! Are you getting a custom grind for your app or is it one of the proven "off the shelf" grinds that's out there? Don makes some really good points about knowing what you're starting with to help understand where you're going.



Tim

 

[DLane]

]DLane... good monologue! Are you getting a custom grind for your app or is it one of the proven "off the shelf" grinds that's out there? Don makes some really good points about knowing what you're starting with to help understand where you're going.



I agree with Don 100%. If I was not going to install a aftermarket intake (not the intake horn, the plenum cast in the head) and port intake and exhaust, I probably would not change cams. I do not remember if it was here or another diesel forum that I picked up the stock cam specs from. But they are out there, I found them. I also checked them before I ordered anything, just to be sure. My cam specs I went over with COMPy, and I am confident he understands what I am wanting to do. He may not agree with my pump choice but the cam will be what can be done.

Because of turbos, it is definately less important to have great airflow, BUT still important in my book. In a naturally aspirated engine, airflow is much more critical. Our turbos help, but I can not help but wonder how much, if any can be gained by making everything flow. Since I am building a daily driver, maybe I am wasting time and money, I will soon find out. But as I see it, someone ALWAYS has to be first. And it may not help as much as hoped but can't hurt either. (So experimenting we go I do not claim to be any kind of "expert" on diesel or gas engines. I do feel I have made some of both run very well and would like to do so again. Afterall, it's fun and it's why most of us are on this site.

David

 

[Wyomingcowboy]

dragging one out of the archives here



DLane:

How about some follow up? What did you go with, if anything, and how did it turn out?

 

[DFleming]

I went with a helix 2 because it is not a regrind, and because that you can run a mech lift pump. I just don't like eletric pump like fass or airdog nothing aganist the two companys. Oo. I have put it in let but have high hopes. good luck with the choice.

 

[Wyomingcowboy]

I am going with helix 2 myself. It's in the box waiting to go in. I also installed an air dog last year so I won't need the mech. pump unless it goes south..... fingers crossed there.