Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Camshaft Catastrophe

[WI Huck]

Here are pictures. Now I can see that there is no bushing or bearing there. There is a machined groove that from a distance made it look that way.

 

[Fishin Guide]

Your pics did not come through.



Dave

 

[WI Huck]

Wi Huck,



Who's cam and springs are these? I have several customers that are concerned about doing a cam swap and having the same issues you have.....



Doug

I don’t want to bring that into the discussion right now. I don’t want to turn this into a flaming of this guy or that guy. I will post the reason why this happened when we do figure this all out though.

 

[Jetpilot]

I don’t want to bring that into the discussion right now. I don’t want to turn this into a flaming of this guy or that guy. I will post the reason why this happened when we do figure this all out though.

Wasn't looking to flame anyone..... Its just that some parts appear to be defective (for whatever reason) and guys who are purchasing cams and springs are concerned. If they knew whos product this was then they wouldn't be concerned over the install if its another vendor or perhaps they might wait until the diagnosis if they have purchased this brand.



Doug

 

[KLockliear]

Can you post pics of the damage to the cam/block/valve gear? Also, what oil are you running? How much PSI? How long did you break the cam in for?

Can you post pics of the cam please. Also, answer the other questions above.

 

[sbentz]

Who's springs did you use? Some people like the high pressure ones. We like them a little softer than that. We have spun the dragster engine 5200 with our single (special) springs, and never hit a valve to a piston. Our valve to piston clearance are tight, too. We are in the 90-100 seat pressure range.



Honestly, the spring pressure you mention should not be able to have done that. We have spun the front bushing before, and it was from a lube and pressure issue. We got the clearances back in line, and did a good prelube, and all was fine.



Dumb question - Did you have any valve to piston contact? Bent pushrods? Did you check valve to piston clearance before starting it? Is the cam exceeding the valve spring travel and hitting coil bind? Is the retainer hitting the valve seal?



It sounds like you have some REALLY high valve train load. More than just the killer springs.

 

[I-6DZL]

Aftermarket head or did you reuse his stock head and just add the stiffer springs ?



Sounds like Sbentz hit it on the head. The springs were not allowed to fully open for some reason.



Take a pic of the mating surface of the lifters to the cam for # 5 and 6. Are the push-rods the same length between intake and exhaust ?



Curtis

 

[WI Huck]

Time for an update… Thanks to everyone for their input. The head was new from Cummins since the one we sent out for porting and polishing was cracked. All the machining work was done by the same place we bought the parts from. I can not say if we had piston to valve clearance problems, but I don’t think so. If there were problems I think that would show up right away and it would not run so good. The engine sounded and ran strong when it left us. The cam lobes looked new, only the journals were scored.



We bought a second engine and installed a new camshaft into it and transferred all parts over, including the same head and turbochargers. We rebuilt the turbos due to contamination in the oil. We broke in the cam by running the engine 1500 to 1800 RPM for about 15 to 20 minutes. We use Shell Rotella T 15-40 oil. There was more than ample lube on installation of this baby, and we even had a small grove put into the cam where the first one wore into the block hoping that it would help keep an oil layer between it and the block. We ran the truck on a few test runs keeping it under twenty pounds of boost. We retorqued the head a couple times and let the customer take it.



Later that night I got a call from my customer stating that it was doing the same thing! We had the truck towed in and sure enough, same thing. We pulled the engine and did not tear it down; instead we crated it up and sent the whole thing to the people who we bought the parts from.



They have received the engine and looked it over. They say that they can not find anything definite to point the finger of blame at. They can’t say it was something that we did, or anything that was their fault either. They had another engine that they put together using the same head and external parts that we sent. They said that they completely disassembled the head and checked for errors with none found. They did lower the spring rates some and ran the engine on a stand there for 4+ hours. It is on the way back to us now.



I would be more comfortable knowing what was the cause of the problem was. I sure don’t want my customer having the problem again. Two running engines, two similar problems. ? ? ? ?

 

[KLockliear]

Again, how much oil pressure were you seeing? If the valves smacked the pistons, you will usually see that on the piston top. Did you reuse the oil cooler or install a new one on the 2nd engine? How about the oil pump? Sounds like an oil starvation problem so far.

 

[Demons_Ram]

What happened with this issue?

 

[WI Huck]

The ending to this story was that the place where we had the work done said that they would pay for our time in this plus expenses. They agreed to repair the first block that we sent them with cam bushings on all the journals. The cause of the problem was determined to be too much valve spring pressure; even though they claim that other engines are running that much pressure. I would only suggest that much pressure if the journals have had bearings installed. Even though they told me that they were going to pay and send the block back repaired two months ago, I am still waiting.

 

[WI Huck]

Again, how much oil pressure were you seeing? If the valves smacked the pistons, you will usually see that on the piston top. Did you reuse the oil cooler or install a new one on the 2nd engine? How about the oil pump? Sounds like an oil starvation problem so far.

They were two complete engines with nothing transferred over. We did not disassemble the second engine since we pulled it and shipped it complete. The place where we bought everything looked it over real close to find something. They did not. The truck has ran great ever since.

 

[Demons_Ram]

Huck,

In post 21 of this thread where you posted the photos, is the first photo of the rear cam journal, or is it the front?

 

[WI Huck]

The damage was at the rear of the engine, opposite of the cam gear. The gear train supports the camshaft on that end. The wear was progressively less as you got closer to the gear. The cam ground into the block enough that the pushrods came out from under the rockers.