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Can dealer tell if you had a chip?

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I'm sure this has been discussed numerous times but I now have something to think about. My buddy has an '02 SO/5-speed with 40k miles. He's had an EZ on level 1 since about 5 - 10k miles. Towing a 2600 lbs. trailer he threw a rod. He removed the chip and brought it in. He said the first thing the dealer said was that it would be covered under warranty unless he had propane stuff. He said this before they even looked at the truck. He got a call the next day asking what he had plugged in to the PCM. To make a long story short, somehow they figured that he had a chip.



I'd heard that the dealer can tell on the '03's from the computer the max boost, fueling, etc. Does anyone have experience with this on the '03's or even older trucks?
 
chip

buddy of mine had to take his in and they knew he had the box on by checking the computer, so one of the techs fried the computer and DC covered it. the shop gets paid either way so it shouldnt matter to them.
 
chip

buddy of mine had to take his in and they knew he had the box on by checking the computer, so one of the techs fried the computer and DC covered it. the shop gets paid either way so it shouldnt matter to them.
 
When I had my injectors installed the truck put out 125 hp. No one could figure out what was wrong. When DC had their look at it the dealer also couldn't figure out what was wrong and went through everything electrical, the thought being it wasn't fueling due to being in some kind of limp mode. When they plugged in there were no sirens, red lights spinning or anything else. The EZ never betrayed its presence insofar as anyone could tell. I'm not saying they cant tell but It looks like it doesn't just spit the info out when they plug in. I just recently took the truck in to get a leak in the steering fixed and left everything on. Not a word said. The tech did beg for a ride and I accommodated.
 
If they wanted to get real serious they could figure it out -- the boost fooler I think leaves a signature by recording a pretty bogus boost levels, something like 9 lbs if memory serves.



odds are, however, that the dealer discovered the EZ by inspection (just my opinion). There's even a TSB I think about checking the fuse box for evidence of a box mounted there. Also, the CAN bus connector comes with a factory plug in it, all nice and greased. An open CAN bus connector is evidence that the factory plug as been removed. DC is getting wise to these boxes and is educating their field techs on how to inspect for tampering of anything. not just the VP44 wire -- I expect they look right at that CAN bus connector for anything including fingerprints in the dust. same for the MAP sensor, which is the other connection point for the EZ on an 02.
 
What is really sad about your post, is you apparently feel it is fine to LIE to your dealer. You and your buddy both new the risk of bolting on performance items, and you still did it, no dought bragging to your friends about it. You guys choise to take that risk, your dealer and Dodge did not. I for one am glade technology has caught up with people like you. It has been said 900,000 times, you are your own warranty station. You or your buddy are not kids anymore, the two of you are both men. So stand up and take it like one.
 
I believe your post is uncalled for in this case. I only asked if the dealer could tell if a chip was installed. I did not complain about whether they would void the warranty, I simply asked a question. Just because someone doesn't walk in to the dealer and say "hey, I threw a rod but I had these performance mods on my truck" doesn't make them a liar. If they figure it they figure it out.
 
The part I'm having trouble with is the throwing of a rod. I've never heard of this happening to a Cummins, even when H. P. levels are above 700. The only thing I can think of is that he over revved it and if he did, it will have definitely set a code.
 
I agree. I think Y-not is a little harsh. I worked for dealers for years. I could have cared if it had performance mods. Most techs could give a rat. The manufactures have been making good money most years. Let them take care of it. Cummins sold over a millon motors because of D. C. The ONLY time this was a pain was customers who REPEATLY TORE stuff up and became a PAIN in the AXX. Took advantage etc. SOME DO THIS. Back in the late 60s amd early 70s My old boss(service manager)told stories of Gto's etc.coming into the Pontiac dealer he worked for with the shoe polish numbers still on the windshields rods hanging out of engines,flywheels cracked,rear gears shattered and THE FACTORY REP walking threw the shop telling them TO FIX IT. Same thing was going on at the Chrysler store NEXT DOOR and the Chevy store/Ford etc. They didn't bat a eye. Not until the gas crunch hit then the warranty was TURNED OFF. At the NISSAN store we found BB in the TURBO lines and trannys tore up. We just removed them and told customers off to the side not to be so obvious when they brought the Z in and if a next time to remove the damn thing himself before towing it in AND not to be pushy about the repair etc.
 
Y-not's post may have been harsh, out of line, and un-asked for but, I don't disagree with it. Maybe I don't understand why the question was asked. Ability to fool the dealer for warranty repair is the only conclusion I can come up with. Ford, DC, and GM are hurting right now as people fall for the Toyota and Honda hype. It's in vogue to bash American autos. The money tree has died and the big three are trying to stay alive. Warranty work costs big bucks. DC warrants the Cummins engines in our trucks, not Cummins. If damage occurs due to any engine mods, why should DC pay? Once you change anything about the engine, it's no longer the engine DC warrantied.

I don't believe the engine "threw a rod" either. It "blew up" or "threw a rod" is one of those generic terms that can mean anything from a bad battery to total distruction. What really happened?
 
Originally posted by Prairie Dog

The part I'm having trouble with is the throwing of a rod. I've never heard of this happening to a Cummins, even when H. P. levels are above 700. The only thing I can think of is that he over revved it and if he did, it will have definitely set a code.



He had two diesel mechanics at work look at it before he took it to the dealer and they both said it was in the top end. The dealer was the one who said it threw a rod. He could not have been running much more HP/torque than a newer HO with the EZ on level 1 so I find it difficult to believe it could have had anything to do with the chip. He swears he wasn't over-revving it but I wasn't there.



I've seen all the discussions in the past regarding chips and warranties and whether it's honest or not. I had no intention of beginning another one of those threads.
 
HOs have different pistons, cams and piston cooling nozzles. If anything, he may have burned a hole through one of the pistons or burned a valve giving it the sensation of running on 5cyl as though it threw a rod. Much more likely than a connecting rod breaking. In any event, if he was running a fueling box, the PCM/ECM records events that would reflect the use of these devices.
 
its the buyer's responsibiilty to develop a relationship with the dealer service manager and understand that this guy has a fair amount of authority and has been authorized by DC to exercise good judgement in cases of warranty questions. Some dealers take a hard nosed, 100% "legalistic" and verbatim interpretation of the warranty -- perhaps because a few customers have driven them to it. These are the dealers who refuse to work on your truck if you have so much as a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to your VP44, for example.



Other dealers, depending on how you treat them, are quite reasonable. they understand the MM warrany act, the durability of these engines, and use good sense. These are the guys who know that a mild performance box is probably not the cause of throwing a rod, and would approach the warranty question with some good sense. Some such dealers will warrant your front end even when you put on 285/70 tires, when DC says only 265. Some of them install after market exhaust and understand what it means for an after market part to cause something else to fail.



The difference between these two types of dealers is often the customer. If you barge in and demand an entitlement, you will probably get treated legalistically and the manual/warranty statements will probably get interpreted verbatim. the Dealer will probably escalate up to the Zone rep and so on, and guess what: the more you demand entitled warranty covereage, the more you will attract "by the book" attention.



Its those gray areas of the warranty that you want your dealer behind you. Cause if you throw a fit, all those gray areas will probably turn black real quick.



I think people largely mis-understand what the dealer's job is. not only do some folks believe that the dealer is the mfg; they believe that because the dealer made a $200 profit or barely broke even on the new vehicle, that they are entitled to luxury loaner cars, compensation for vehicle down time, and general red carpet treatment.



My 02 2500 was a pig, and I was always into the dealer since the day I bought it. I found, however, that by being patient with the dealer, appealing to reasonable action instead of demanding entitlement, I got very favorable response and a willingness to help me out. thats where lots of folks don't get it: the dealer is your advocate to the zone rep. He can speak volumes for you, how valuable you are as a customer, how you should be treated, how you treat your vehicle, etc. do you want that guy on your side or against you? When you're in a gray area of the warranty and it isn't clear whether or not your mod caused a failure or not, you're gonna want the dealer on your side, not suspicous of you. otherwise, the official answer will always be "no warranty coverage". In extreeme cases they can slap a limited warranty onto your truck, which is a perminent designation, not just a one-time refusal to cover a certain repair.



so back to fueling boxes. My dealer told me he would stick up for me even if I put on a mild fueling box on my 02 (the EZ). Since I actually put on a comp box in EZ mode instead of the EZ itself, (didn't hook up the VP44 pump wire) I took my box off when it went into the dealer. no deception at all, but at the same time I didn't want a mechanic going balistic over nothing and calling un-due attention to this mystery box that they didn't know about. Thankfully I never had the chance to test the dealer to this level, but I'm confident that if my 02 had thrown a rod, they would have covered it.



now then, you put on a hot box like the new Edge, that does timing, duration AND pressure, you are pretty much outside the envelope in my opinion and have no business asking for warranty coverage for the drivetrain. Tweaking up the engine with mild power mods until its output matches what the same block normally puts out in commercial duty is reasonable. but putting on a competition box that pushes the engine well beyond any power lever used commercially is outside of that gray area in my opinion.
 
I am sorry that some of you may not like my comments on the dealer and modifications. But I stand by them, Deception is deception. I have done a great deal of modifications to my truck, the first thing I did was throw in a TST #8 plate, I believe that was around 6500 miles. I did so knowing that my warranty was now over with the Cummins engine. It did not bother me, the Cummins is a very reliable powerplant and I felt comfortable in the desision. The chioce to modify my truck was souly mine, I understood that. I would not have made the same desision with say the new 6. 0, I would think you to be very foolish to modify any part of that engine, with the problems they are having. It is a questions of when they will need repair, not if. The same would hold true when Cummins releases there new EGR engine, I would not feel comfortable doing any modifications for atleast the first year.
 
Well I disagree. the big Three have been getting by with murder for years. They won't fold. May have to make a little less profit. They buy HUNDEREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars of GOODWILL and BUYBACK autos for folks that have no problem. JUST UNHAPPY! Let them fix a motor or trans for ONE thats REALLY BROKEN. I watched them buy stuff YOU would not believe! And the Japs arent selling big eaither. They wiggle to NOT buy SQUAT under warranty. look at their DEALS and LOW money. its never what the big THREE offer. some of what they produce is junk also.
 
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