Can I tow.........

[Barry]

a 1991 250 Cummins/5 speed and not damage the trans. ??

 

[Barry]

Also, it is a single cab LE 2 wd. About how much does it weigh??

 

[paccool]

Barry,

My 93 extended cab LE weighs 6200 lbs with a tool box in the rear. I would guess that a regular cab completely empty will be around 5600lbs.

 

[Barry]

What I want to do is tow an extra truck when I go to an auction. That way my wife can bring an rv back and I can bring one back. I was going to buy a 92-95 Ford F150 with the 300 six and a 5 speed. But, my Dodge dealer called me with a one owner 91 D250 with 160K on the clock. Never had a goosneck ball or a hitch installed. If I can bolt a tow bar on the front and tow it, I rather drive that than a 1/2 ton Ford!

 

[Power Wagon]

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, TOW YOUR TRUCK WITH THE DRIVESHAFT IN PLACE !!!





Under no circumstances should you move it more than a few feet, perhaps a hundred yards, without the engine running. You WILL toast your transmission.



Get the word out, spread it far and wide... DO NOT< DO NOT< DO NOT!!!!!!!!



There, was I clear enough?

 

[paccool]

Barry,



I had an F-150 with that engine. Was fine without a load but the 6000# trailer was too much for it. Took forever to get up to speed, hills mean't second gear at 30-35 MPH. Empty it got around 18MPG but towing the mileage dropped to about 10.



I would go for the Dodge.

 

[Paychk]

The factory “93” service manual states:



When towing is necessary the recommended methods are:



1) sling type rear raised

2) wheel lift with tow dolly under front wheels

3) or flat bed hauling equipment



It goes on to say that “It is recommended that rear-end raised towing method be used”. When it refers to rear wheels on the ground it specifies “don’t exceed 15 miles distance at a max of 30 MPH” and transmission must be in neutral. Automatic transmissions are not recommended for rear wheels on the ground towing.



From other forum member’s experience, it seems the best advice is to isolate the transmission from the rear axle if the truck must be towed with the wheels on the ground.

 

[Deezul1]

Ok I am learning something here. I have always known dont flat tow an auto trans without removing the driveshaft but on a 5 speed?

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Deezul 1

Ok I am learning something here. I have always known dont flat tow an auto trans without removing the driveshaft but on a 5 speed?

The inner bearings of the transmission are lubricated by the front idler geartrain pumping oil up into the direct through cluster. As long as your front gears are turning (engine running, clutch engaged), these bearings get oil. They do NOT get oil if you are in neutral and the engine off. Of course, there's a little in there ,and you can go a short distance from the lubricant already there, but not very far.



What will happen, is that as soon as the lube gets thin things will start to heat up, and as soon as they get hot enough, the main shafts through the transmission will seize together. I've even heard of the transmission getting so hot that it caught fire while the truck was being towed.



It doesn't take long, especially if the truck sat for a long time before being moved, and the lube has all drained away. Damage could occurr within a few hundred feet, in that case.



The Getrag, NV4500, NV5600 and lots of other modern transmissions are all the same. For that matter, most throughout history have been pretty much that way, but with historical use of heavy greases and extra idling gears driven off the output, some trannies had no problem being towed in neutral.

 

[Barry]

Thanx Guys! I suspected that the top or main shafts would starve for lube. I am going to take my three car hauler to pick the truck up Wed. I will use it for a few weeks to see how it does. My 2001 (del. Apr. 00) is coming up on 70K miles. My dealer thought he could order my new 4 door in July. At the rate I am going, I'll have over a 100K on my truck when my new one gets here. So... ... . I think I will park my '01 for a while and put miles on a $4500 truck vs a $30K truck. Also hoping that I can swap a lot of my stuff on to the new truck. It is a pain to buy a new truck and then spend 5 grand on it to make it the way you want it!!! I use my truck as a trade on paper to save the taxes and then buy it back. Rush home and take all the stuff off it. Sold my 00/3500 to one of our members in San Diego. He flew in and I picked him up at the airport. Came to my dealership for the paperwork and we pointed him towards the sunset... ..... "Go west young man"... ... ... ... ...

 

[Crash_AF]

Let me re-emphasize what PW said with a story from personal experience that cost me over $1800.



The injector pump on my 93 D-350 dually went south while I was pulling a trailer and I needed a tow back. A couple of members here came down and got the trailer off the truck, and we started towing my truck back up to Co Springs (about 35 miles). Within five miles on the road, I smelled smoke in the cab and told the tow rig to pull over. When I climbed out of the truck and looked underneath, the transmission was on FIRE . Upon further investigation, the output shaft bearing was cherry red and the seal was actually what was on fire. Luckily I had a cup of water that was formerly ice in the truck and one quick toss into the output shaft area was enough to put out the fire. I pulled the rear driveshaft and we continued on our way without event, but it cost me over $1800 to find another 2wd getrag and have it installed. I have also been told not to tow the NV-4500 without pulling the rear driveshaft.



The 4x4s are a different beast since the NP transfer cases have the oil pump on the rear output shaft and you can put it in neutral and pull it all day long at whatever speed you feel comfortable with, but NEVER EVER PULL A 2WD WITH THE WHEELS ON THE GROUND AND THE DRIVESHAFT CONNECTED.



Later,

Joe

 

[Deezul1]

Wow, thats good to know, I would have not figured that to be a problem. I have flat towed so many different kinds of cars with standard trans with no trouble it wouldnt have occured to me to even check the manual for instructions (and just when you think you know everything too). This info alone has saved my TDR cost many times over even though I hope never to be towed.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Crash_AF

Let me re-emphasize what PW said with a story from personal experience that cost me over $1800.



Later,

Joe

and I feel absolutely awful still... that Joe was in chat, mentioned he was broke down and was going to tow his truck... and I did not say anything.



Sorry joe... Wish I could undo that... I knew better and didn't open my big trap... I just didn't think to say anything... As usual, I figured I was late to the party and everyone else knew that before I did.

 

[Barry]

Before I got old and fat, I could drop a drive shaft in about 3 minutes. Wonder how long it will take me now???????

 

[Deezul1]

Hey Barry

Doesnt somebody like Remco make a disconnect device for the drive shaft? I know they have them for front wheel drive cars.

 

[paccool]

LOL Barry, glad to hear that I'm not the only one having that problem!

 

[mark93]

In the exploded view of the NP 205 transfer case I see no oil pump.



Some aluminum case units, like the 208, 231 and 241, do have an oil pump.



The 205 would suffer the same as a manual trans because there are no gears turning in neutral.



Before 1966 they used to put rear pumps in auto transmissions so you could push start the car and tow without restictions when the trans was in neutral. I read somewhere the rear pump was eliminated for "safety reasons" (it's safe to say profit was increased). Speaking of increased profit, it reminds me of the 6 speed second gens getting a 13" clutch the Mickey Mouse way-all those baloney modifications to the starter mount, flywheel and clutch cover to get a clutch inferior the first gens!

 

[RDBuck]

Towing 4x4 manual

I'm a little confused about towing -if I had the occassion-my 92 4x4 with the NV 5 speed. Most of the posts say do not tow unless drive shaft is disconnected. One post exempted the 4x4 as it was mentioned the transfer case supplies oil to the transmission. Can I flat-tow a 4x4 without unhooking the driveshaft?

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

PW and some of the others are completly accurate. an old mechanic told me when we asked about towing a standard trans equimped vehicle that a long time ago he burned up the trans while towing because only the bottom gears of the trans would be turning and not allowing for proper oil circulation. What he did to solve the problem was make some sort of hook that held the clutch down while the trans was in gear during towing, But that for a one time deal is too much trouble. The drive shaft at the rear is very easy to take loose only like 4 small bolts make sure to take a hammer to lightly tap because some times it gets stuck on the yoke, then take along some bailing wire and wire up the drive shaft to the frame try to wire it up and forward so the shaft doesn't want to slide out of the trans.

 

[Crash_AF]

Actually, when you put the 4x4 transfer case in neutral it will prevent the transmission from turning and therefore eliminate the problem entirely. Not sure on the 205 oil pump thing, I think it has to do with the all gear drive system or something... I've flat towed lots of 205 equipped trucks and none of them have had any problems.



Of course YMMV...



Later,

Joe