2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission can incorrect caster cause poor fuel economy?

[GreggNoble]

hi, i tried to buy a couple pairs of off-set ball joints to try to correct my camber issues,and the guy who sells them said to me that he wouldn`t use them because ,although they can correct the camber ,they will throw my caster settings off, and he sais this will greatly increase fuel comsumption.

i`ve been trying to understand this concept, the guy seemed to know what he was talking about but he didn`t explain it enough for me to connect the dots! can anyone explain this to me?

 

[DodgeWarlock]

As I undertand it, caster would have little or no influence on economy since its effects would normally only be seen during turning. The same should apply to camber. Toe however should have a noticeable influence on mileage.



I may of course have it all wrong... any experts???

 

[GreggNoble]

Thanks, i can`t underdtand it either but the guy said to me "imagine you are pushing a wheel barrel,think off how easy it is to push it when the wheel is as far in front off you as possible, now try to imagine if you were to lift the handlebars to you shoulder height then try pushing it. the amount of force needed to push it would increase greatly and the handleing would be terrible because all the weight off the barrell is now directly on the wheel whereas before half off it were on your hands when you were pushing the wheelbarrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do ya think this makes sence?

 

[kenny61]

This explains what does what read all the pages. Wheel Alignment Explained - What is Caster, Camber, Toe In, Toe Out, Alignment - Four Wheel Alignment. On the 4x4 the camber is set at the factory and really shouldn't change unless you bend something. The upper ball joints fit into a sleeve that goes into the knuckle these sleeves come in different off sets which is how the factory adjusts the camber. which is how bowlegged you trucks front tires are. Its been years since I was around an alignment machine but the camber really shouldn't effect the caster too much if anything at all. Also the caster is adjustable so if it did effect something it should be able to be adjusted back to spec. I don't know where you are getting your alignment done but if you are bringing it to a chain store try to find and old alignment shop that has an old grumpy guy working. Todays alighnment technicians only know how to read a computer screen and tell you its in spec. The old timers know how each adjustment effects the the other and can dial it in to adjust for something else being out of whack. I had a chevy caprice that had a wicked pull to the left after the alignment guy got done it didn't before I brought it in. the only thing the moron could tell me was "well the computer says its in spec" I found an old alignment shop where the second generation now runs it and was taught by his father. I see someone their owns a ctd so they know what hey are doing It is the only place I will go now

 

[GreggNoble]

kenny, i was thinkin about what you said about adjustable sleves for camber adjustment, dodge must have changed something cause both my 2001 25004x4 and my 2500 4x4 have no sleves or any form off camber adjustment,i sure wish there was adjustment,i might get my moneys worth from my tires.

how common is it to have an axle bent have you hear off it,it seems to be the only explaination for my camber being off !! thanks

 

[kenny61]

kenny, i was thinkin about what you said about adjustable sleves for camber adjustment, dodge must have changed something cause both my 2001 25004x4 and my 2500 4x4 have no sleves or any form off camber adjustment,i sure wish there was adjustment,i might get my moneys worth from my tires.

how common is it to have an axle bent have you hear off it,it seems to be the only explaination for my camber being off !! thanks

I don't think one would bend unless you got into an accident or doing some high speed 4 wheeling. According to what I googled you should have the sleeves in the axle. Have you looked your self? they are located in the knuckle of the upper ball joint. I just took a pic and will post it shortly. I think this is what they sell and the page says they are available at oreillys Northstar Caster/Camber Adjustment Bearing: 1-3/4 Degree 445007 (445007) | The Car Connection. I would really suggest getting a second opinion at another alignment shop. Try to find one with a cranky old man who has been around since before all the computerized machines alot of the chain stores have guys who only know how to say the computer says its in spec

 

[kenny61]

The arrow points to the sleeve. I have never removed one so I don't know if you need a press or not. Keep in mind any adjustment you make (general statement) effects another one. I know there are a few alignment experts on this site why dont you post what the truck has now and maybe someone can help you out

 

[GreggNoble]

Thanks Kenny. the hole that my ball joint fits in doesn`t look like that, its just a flat surface with the ball joint hole. both my trucks have camber problems . i installed the 2 inch rubber levelling kit in my 2001 2500cummins 4x4 and new wide wheels and tires and now its camber if off -3 on each side ruining the inside off my tires.

My 2001 35004x4 i installed the 21/2 inch levelling pucks and her camber is off in the opposite direction,she is wearing the outsides off her tires. there is something about these front ends that i don`t understand. i realize that lifting the front ends had to shage-up the caster but i`m told that it doesn`t affect the camber!

i have had both trucks to alignment shops and they say that my camber is off and needs to be fixed before an alignment can be done. oh to have a leaf spring from end ha ha ha ha thanks

 

[kenny61]

i realize that lifting the front ends had to shage-up the caster but i`m told that it doesn`t affect the camber!

They lied to you. unless you never have to turn the wheel. This explains it explain how caster affects camber? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums I've had my truck for 13 years now. And have had the outside wear problem That was a long time ago when I went to the chain shops and kept hearing it was in spec. I went to another private owned shop and never had the problem again they did not have to off set the ball joints. read this too FYI - alt. autos. dodge. trucks | Google Groups and this Ram steering specs. maybe give carli or forgot the other big name a call if no one else here helps also try posting in the offroad forum I am 99% sure your problem is caused by the lift and alignment shops that have no clue how an alignment is done other than to read the screen.

 

[GreggNoble]

Thanks Kenny, i think i finally understand it now. i wish i had my own alignment shop because i think very few mechanics understand this topic,i guess i`m gonn have to try to find someone who really wants to do the job right,thanks so much!

 

[kenny61]

Are you in Canada? Try posting in the https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/local-regional-chapters-events/ to see if anyone in your area can recommend a shop. If not just go through the phone book get the address and drive around look for a shop that looks like it has been in business for 20 or 30 years Thats where you want to go skip the tire chains and Walmarts

Good Luck

 

[GreggNoble]

Kenny do ya think i`ll get it aligned with the leveling kits installed or will i have to take them out? my 2500 is no higher now than it was when it was new, but the 3500 with the 2 1/2 kit it higher than it was new. will these lifts cause me to never be able to get it aligned without buying longer controll arm etc?

 

[kenny61]

Never had a lift kit so I don't know Give a post in the off road section I'm sure some one there can help you

 

[Bob Cochran]

Amen on finding a good alignment shop, real hard to do. I miss the shop I used to us he retired. I remember on time bent lower A arm(don't ask me how long story) and took to him. He said not sure where to start, gave me a list of things to replace including the bent A arm and then bring back. He said you don't want to know what I would charge the chance the parts you can do the major labor and work(honest man 2). Later I remember he aligned my wife's Buick took hours and he came out with bloody hands but got it done. I miss him wish there where more like him!!!!

 

[GreggNoble]

Kenny in the picture that you sent me off your top ball joint is the picture upside down?cause my top ball joint is installed down through with the nut on the ball joint facing the road your looks to be opposite . i have looked at mine and i have installed many many balljoint in it and there is no sleve to be scene.

 

[kenny61]

Nope its right side up. mine is a 96 maybe they changed it by your year? I thought they were supposed to be the same but I am by no means an expert on whats it what year

 

[GreggNoble]

no probelm, yea mine the ball joint is just pressed down bolt 1st and there is no snap ring either,but the buggers are some hard to get out ,i have had to burn them out with a torch