Can some one set me straight 12v/24v ect ect

[SmithK]

I currently have a 1994 Chevy CrewCab Dually 2wd with the "famous" 6. 5LTD and 480LE. It gets me around but I am going to use this to tow around 10,000-14,000#'s in an enclosed car hauler (lots of drag) on the interstate. Due the 6. 5's past history I don't count on making any record of how many miles this engine will last. This will be its primary use other than maybe driving it around town so it doesn't waste away, I would like to be able to get decent mileage on the freeway but still climb a hill with a load and not be stuck in the right lane (of course there is a trade off for each of these unless my wallet eats the bill). Once a "catastrophic event" occurs I plan on converting to a cummings motor and replacing the transmission. My questions are mainly what are the HP/TQ ratings on each version (what years and the common name of each, like I think ISB is the 98-02 engine but don't know for sure) of the cummings and what are some things to avoid and facts. From reading the dodge auto transmissions are best left as a door stop. I would prefer to put in a 6 spd manual transmission anyway, but I think I see people even putting an overdrive on the manual transmissions. I have never seen this but hey I have not been pulling a load like this until recently and never thought to ask either. Just to make it clear on what I am looking for I am writing an example below for the GM diesel:

(NOTE: this is a sample and most figures and statements are not factual)

ENGINES:

1982-1988 6. 2L (130HP/300TQ) slow but decent mileage, beware of 82 injector pump

1985-1992 6. 5L (155HP/345TQ) just bored out 6. 2

1991-1993 6. 5LTD (180HP/380TQ) First Turbo years, significant gas mileage drop from previous

1994-1995 6. 5LTD (190HP/400TQ) First years of electronic fuel pump, beware of PMD failure from now on in this engine

1996 6. 5LTD (190/400TQ)upgraded computer for OBD II, otherwise similar to 94-95.

1997-2000 6. 5LTD (200HP/420TQ)upgraded water pump and dual thermostats, SELF DESTRUCTING BLOCK-GM tried to save money by putting less metal around the crank journals and cracked blocks are very common, IE BIG PAPERWEIGHT

2000 6. 5LTD (195HP/425TQ)GM old block casting returns, slightly larger turbo, but emissions regulations enforced

2001-2003 6. 6LTD (DMAX LB7) (270HP/550TQ)First year had IP pump failures, pain in the butt to work on any of these, good gas mileage 17HWY

2003. 5-2005 6. 6LTD (DMAX LLY)(310HP/550TQ)larger turbo, injector change from external to internal, mileage 18HWY

2006 6. 6LTD (DMAX LBZ) (365HP/600TQ)not sure changes but highly sought after before 2007 emissions regulations kick in, mileage 18. 5HWY



TRANSMISSIONS:

480LE (auto) can put sand in it and would still work

700L (auto) makes great paper weight

ZF-650 (6 speed manual) I wish I had one



Most of all this is general information and I realize some may be a bit biased from there experince but just getting a feel for this type engine and what I need to look for. In my case I do not need any 4WD info but others may appreciate what will bolt up and work for there conversion. Other information that might be helpful is engine location changes that may affect a swap such as an A/C compressor changed from driver to passenger side in certain years/models that may make a swap easier or harder for an individual. If anyone needs more information (think I got it all) from me for my swap please let me know. Thanks

 

[DogDiesel]

Similar conversion

I have a 1993 that was original 6. 5L with NV4500 5sp 4x4 4. 10:1.

Had a low-compression 6. 5L intercooled engine wirth 300HP. Nice. Did not last.

Installed a 97 12 Cummins, stock except for 325 HP injectors and fuel plate minor mods. 2500 original governored RPM. now have 90-100K on that setup. Pulls better than the 6. 5 in all configurations, the LC 300 6. 5 ran up to 4100 RPM, so it would out run and pull with my basic 12V.



Did the install myself, got it in there without body lift, but had no room above transmission, was touching body, so I would have had vibration. Yes, they can be converted without lift :-{} , but I put in the 2" body lift with no regrets. The Chevy has a "manly-er" look now. Drives the same. I have plenty room everywhere to work, and can now close my hood. Distance for fan clutch, intercooler and radiator an issue. I'm still running the big bottom 6. 5L intercooler, but believe more power would come from a front mounted cooler.

No regrets installing the Cummins 12V. Except I used the GM adapter and input shaft. However, no clutch issues with my setup.



On a 94, you'll be hunting a fuel pedal setup with a 12V.



I pull a 31 foot enclosed GN, a 25 foot GN equipment hauler and a large 36 foot RV. Truck loves 55-64 for pulling, especially 62 MPH, so most of my pulling is at that speed. Most of the mileage is pulling miles.



I have pulled up to 28,400lbs (truck/trailer/load) on the equipment trailer, and it pulls fine, no heat or power issues.



Mileage is no better than the 6. 5, actually worse at 70+ speeds, cause that is where the 6. 5 was made to run, the 12V loves 62-64 with 4:10 and OD. Believe if you want to run 70-80 lower gears are needed or just take the mileage droop.



Only convert if you want to keep the truck. ReSale on conversions does not appear to be a plus.





Wayne

 

[SmithK]

Thanks for the info, I really do not plan to sell the truck but good advice. I just want a reliable tow rig that wont leave me stranded (yes things happen but broken blocks and the PMD fairy is for the birds). I will be towing a 36ft gooseneck (just so there is no confusion its 42ft with the neck, but its a featherlight so weight is to a minimum, probably haul 2 cars or I may put a living quarters in the front and haul one car but thats way down the road). I really do not want a body lift, I would rather massage the transmission tunnel if possible. I hear the NV5600 is a bit smaller wonder if it would be an issue (then again I may have gotten wrong information). I am currently in eastern TN so mountains (speed bumps for the guys near the rockies) makes gearing an issue. I would like to cruise at 70-75 with no problems but understand I may have to down shift for the hills. I seriously doubt my set up will weigh over 20,000#'s. The trailer is only around 6700 then say two 4000# cars (this is probably overkill on the weight of the cars and most of the time only have one with me) and the truck, well I hear this engine is a bit heavier but hope to be just under 6000#'s but I am not too worried about the weight of the truck. The body lift does a couple of things against me, one makes it that much harder to get my trailer attached (guess the legs are a bit shorter than I would like). Secondly I have to redo my hitch and do not want to raise the center of gravity. Third I guess could be increased drag due to the height increase (not sure how much this would really affect it though). I am wondering why people prefer the 12V (1st gen I think, 93-98) over the 24V (2nd gen I think, 98. 5-2002) and from my understanding the 3rd gen(2003-2006) doesn't get the mileage or power of either of these but is much quieter.

 

[DogDiesel]

Couple of points

1. NV 5600 dwarfs the NV4500. You will definitely do more than touch the transmission tunnel. My NV4500 was extremely difficult to work around the shifter area, because everything moves back 2" and the shifter mount area needs to stick thru the tunnel cover without the body lift, already you have to cut the tunnel and reshape the shifter area.

2. A 2" body lift does not make a 94 chevy look like a Dodge Cummins or PowerStrk looking down at you. The cab kit is easy to install. The bed require 2 blocks welded in. EZ. Couple hours and done. I have a GN hidden hitch and the lift works with it too, this would present an issue if the hidden GN hitch is there already. The mounts have to change.

3. My enclosed trailer is comparable. I have 4 trailers and my enclosed is the hardest to tow. Tows like a lead weight, more weight inside, harder. I can put 2 vehicles in mine. It was nearly as hard to pull 2 vehicles in my enclosed trailer as to pull a small crawler loader on the empliment trailer, only the enclosed trailer stops easier.

4. Those TN hills are no joke. I-40 will run you hotter on a pull than crossing the rockies in the summer.

Good luck with that project.

Wayne

 

[SmithK]

Thanks so far, some how I found this very useful so long as it holds water.



Mac-

I will agree with you on lift pump heaven! LOL The lift pump design on the 24 valves was pretty bad. I still like the 24 valve b/c of the simple design but it is not nearly as reliable and great as the old 12V. I feel the new 03 and newer engine in a step in the wrong direction. It might be quieter and have more factory HP but It will never be as reliable, less complex and correctly valved as a 12V. High costs to maintain it. WE can blame the EPA on the demise of the current engine in the Dodges. Just say no to diesels without a mechanical injection pump!

 

[Forrest Nearing]

you don't happen to live in southeast TX do you?