Archived Can't start engine after changing out six injectors! Bleeding needed for 2007 5.9 CTD

[HerbW]

Hi.
I changed out my six injectors and can't get it to fire or start! I've thought of cracking loose the injector feed line nut on number 1 cylinder near the head to get the air out of the common rail system as I had all the feed lines removed. Is there a bleed procedure for these?

Any advice is appreciated! My truck is DOA! Thanks, Herb:{

 

[cerberusiam]

The high pressure system bleeds automatically, you don't need to do anything else. It just takes a while to get fuel to the cylinders once you drain all the components. Usually a shot or 2 of starting fluid will get it bled out faster.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Are you getting fuel up the the connector tubes?

 

[HerbW]

I don't know if I'm getting fuel. Does anyone know if I put a volt meter on an injector solenoid two lugs, would I see voltage when they operate? What would it be? I have an Edge Evolution that doesn't seem to be reading much now. I had the ECM set to stock. I should be able to unplug the Edge right? I'm either not getting fuel or spark to the injectors. My Evolution showed me fuel pressure but it's not reading now.

Also if I wanted to add something like starter fluid, where is the best place to insert it? On my 1992 Chevy, a half squirt of WD40 did wonders to start it.

 

[ColemanR]

My guess is you have a leak internally. Go back and check all your torq spec's. Had a shop put injectors in my truck....would'nt start they burnt my starter up trying to start it. I pulled all my injectors retorqed everything from the injectors,lines ect... 3 cranks and she fired right up.

 

[cerberusiam]

The HPCR system is self bleeding, it doesn't need anything else. A little starting fluid into the filter lid will usually get them running if you have fuel. WD-40 or carb either one will work, just something to get it spinning faster.

If you still have issues like the ECU not powered up it won't fire no matter what you do. That is problematic unless you have a scanner that see the ECU.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

What did you torque the connector tube nuts to? Lets not over think this. Crack the fuel line to number one connector tube and crank the pickup. Then go see if you got fuel all around where you cracked the line.

 

[HerbW]

Hi
I cracked open number one and cranked and got fuel everywhere under it. I think then fuel is arriving. I got my EDGE Evolution working and it says my fuel pressure is only up to 1.2K pounds while I crank it.
SO.............I spent this afternoon pulling out all my injectors and feed lines and did a total reinstall and torque job. It will fire on a light squirt of ether. If one of my new injectors were bad it could cause a no-start also right? The one injector I was told that was bad had a bad solenoid that I carefully replaced. It seemed very fuel covered when I pulled it. I wondering now if I should buy six new Bosch injectors with feed tubes and start anew? I wish I could tell if the ECM is giving a signal. I don't have any P codes anymore.
I'm going to have to rent a rig to get by while I waste time on this.

Anymore suggestions? I appreciate them. Herb

 

[AllianceDiesel]

You need 2300 psi at the rail to signal ecm to start firing injectors. I have never heard of somebody fixing the solenoid on an injector. I just replace them with a new injector. Unless there is fuel pouring out of the injector, im guessing you got a cp3 problem. I have been seeing this more and more. For some reason once you open the rail it will never build up enough pressure to start. I actually just went through this on a pickup. Pulled the pickup into the shop. Did injector return test, lift pump flow test, and cp3 output test. Could not get the pickup to fire again. Would only make 80psi of rail pressure. Installed a new cp3 and fired right up.

Try unplugging the fca to see if you can get the rail pressure up.

Did it start with ether to just run only on the ether?

 

[HerbW]

If I have low pressure and unhook the FCA off the pump, might it start? I going to clean and install one of my original injectors tomorrow in number one. That was the one that that was suppose to be bad and see if it fires then.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Unplugging the fca causes the cp3 to go full pressure. Does it start and run with ether or does it start and die once it burns up the ether

 

[cerberusiam]

You need about 3k to allow the ECU to fire the injectors, not gonna happen at 1.2k.

When you use a shot of starting fluid does it keep running or just fire until the fluid is gone then quit? If you are getting fire from the fluid then nothing no fuel is being injected, either becasue pressure is too low or something else is wrong. You could try to unplug the FCA and see if it will build pressure and fire but I think the FCA is wide open on crank then backs off as soon as the pressure hits minimum.

 

[HerbW]

Unplugging the fca causes the cp3 to go full pressure. Does it start and run with ether or does it start and die once it burns up the ether

Hi.
It fires only on the ether and quits. So the ECM will only fire the injectors when there is adequate pressure? I'm going to see if my Torx fuel tube puller will fit the my common rail fittings. Basically block off one connection at a time to find a leaky injector by eliminating it temporally. They sell these test plugs at Genos but I'd love to test it tomorrow. If it does, I could plug an injector one at a time at the common rail fitting and see if pressure comes up. I'll unplug the FCA plug and give that a try also.

With my old injectors before I pulled them out, it started immediately with high CP3 pressure. I pulled them to replace them as they have bucoo miles on them and my engine feels like it was missing compared to other Dodge diesels I've checked out. Smooth now! LOL Dead!

 

[cerberusiam]

If it won't run after the starting fluid it is not getting fuel becasue the injectors are not firing. Why they aren't firing is the question, if all you have is 1.2k they won't fire at all. If you have no codes for bank and cylinder misfire then either the ECU is not alive or the solenoids are good.

Either get the cap off fittings and start testing or get new injectors and tubes. It is possible that you have a loose tube if any of the hold down nuts are bad. The only wat to know that whne you install you need to be able to snug them by hand then TQ them. If you cannot snug them by hand then you do not know if a thread is buggered somewhere causing a mis-TQ.

 

[HerbW]

What did you torque the connector tube nuts to? Lets not over think this. Crack the fuel line to number one connector tube and crank the pickup. Then go see if you got fuel all around where you cracked the line.

I torqued the feed tubes nuts the first time at 11 ft lbs on the pre torqueing of this before the final 89 in lbs on the injector. I then torqued the feed tube nuts to it's final 37 ft lbs. The feed tubes from the common rail are then installed at 22 ft lbs with wrench on the feed nuts.

I using quality clicking torque wrenches. If I had room I'd use my Grandpa and Dad's older swing bar type torque wrench. Never a doubt with them. I don't think my install is the problem but I've put a bad injector in.

I'm getting weary of removing and installing them. I plan on plugging the common rail one line at a time to see if I can locate a bad injector that is keeping the pressure down. If I still can't get it to fire, six injectors and feed tubes will be in the mail for my truck OR I clean and install the original injectors and trade this in for a new truck!

 

[HerbW]

If it won't run after the starting fluid it is not getting fuel becasue the injectors are not firing. Why they aren't firing is the question, if all you have is 1.2k they won't fire at all. If you have no codes for bank and cylinder misfire then either the ECU is not alive or the solenoids are good.

Either get the cap off fittings and start testing or get new injectors and tubes. It is possible that you have a loose tube if any of the hold down nuts are bad. The only wat to know that whne you install you need to be able to snug them by hand then TQ them. If you cannot snug them by hand then you do not know if a thread is buggered somewhere causing a mis-TQ.

Hi, I cleaned all the nuts, put a slight coating of engine oil on them as standard practice and finger tightened them in before torque. They went in smoothly. I had cleared a P2509 code prior to trying to start it. Will the ECM not give electrical juice to injectors if pressure is below minimum?

 

[HerbW]

Alan, Thank you for explaining your handle! I have been trying to figure it out! I like if all!

 

[HerbW]

You need 2300 psi at the rail to signal ecm to start firing injectors. I have never heard of somebody fixing the solenoid on an injector. I just replace them with a new injector. Unless there is fuel pouring out of the injector, im guessing you got a cp3 problem. I have been seeing this more and more. For some reason once you open the rail it will never build up enough pressure to start. I actually just went through this on a pickup. Pulled the pickup into the shop. Did injector return test, lift pump flow test, and cp3 output test. Could not get the pickup to fire again. Would only make 80psi of rail pressure. Installed a new cp3 and fired right up.

Try unplugging the fca to see if you can get the rail pressure up.

Did it start with ether to just run only on the ether?

Hi. Please read my story in the 5.9 HP CR section in the recent TDR issue 86. My story on replacing injector solenoids are described there. If a solenoid goes bad it's really easy to put another in and get home afterwards if you have the parts. Easy fix without taking anything apart except the valve cover and one rocker arm off.

 

[HerbW]

I torqued the feed tubes nuts the first time at 11 ft lbs on the pre torqueing of this before the final 89 in lbs on the injector. I then torqued the feed tube nuts to it's final 37 ft lbs. The feed tubes from the common rail are then installed at 22 ft lbs with wrench on the feed nuts.

I using quality clicking torque wrenches. If I had room I'd use my Grandpa and Dad's older swing bar type torque wrench. Never a doubt with them. I don't think my install is the problem but I've put a bad injector in.

I'm getting weary of removing and installing them. I plan on plugging the common rail one line at a time to see if I can locate a bad injector that is keeping the pressure down. If I still can't get it to fire, six injectors and feed tubes will be in the mail for my truck OR I clean and install the original injectors and trade this in for a new truck![/QU


I GOT IT RUNNING AGAIN! I removed the supposed bad injector that I replaced the solenoid on. I did cycle the key three times to do the fuel prime sequence! Replaced it with one of my original injectors and it started right up! I put a new solenoid on it while on my bench. Thank you for all advice and help!

Do I remove this link from it's location? Thanks, Herb

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Thanks for the article, might have to tear apart the old injector Ive had from when I worked at dodge to see how it all works. One thing I might add. Injector resistance is between .1-1 ohm. Anything more is a bad coil going bad. and obviously an open coil is bad. My dad had his miss real bad one day, #1 injector was 12 ohms and causing the ecm to shut down the front bank of injectors.