capitalism gone wild

[TLanier]

here in denver, diesel average looks like $3,35 now.



conoco is the worst offender here, always higher, and ive noticed it seems to be an indicator of where the price is going. someone knows something.



while i was enjoying paying less than gas at around $2. 80 for diesel (gas was around $2. 99), i saw a particular conoco post $3. 35. it was the only one in town NEARLY that high. i was shocked.



sure enough, three weeks later prices here in denver were up to that level. wed, i drove by that same station, which is right in town ($$$) and it has diesel for $3. 79 !!!!!! and, people are buying it. its been there for four days now. i bet, in a few weeks, the avg price here will be there... ... $3. 79.



theres something wrong with the system here. trading oil the way we do, based on futures, not on the good of our country. we pioneered capitalism. made it work. got rich off of it. now that same system, our baby, is sqeezing us for all we will tolerate. it will bankrupt this country. the corporations and oil companies which have run everyone small out of business, whom we supported with our dollars, own us. and they dont need us anymore. they are international now. by the time we run out of money (or credit), india and china will be up to speed as new hosts for those parasites.



ever heard the old story about the frog in the pot of hot water. when he was plopped into a pot with hot water, he jumped out. then, when he was put into a pot of cold water, he stayed. then the heat was turned up, and he stayed in there as he was slowly boiled!!!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

You'll soon see 2 classes of response emerge to your post.



One will say this is Capitalism and free enterprise at it's best, and it's only RIGHT that we in this country pay the same for our fuel as those in other, non-Democracy societies - and if you complain about current fuel pricing trends, you are a "spoiled American crybaby"...



The rest, the majority, will agree with you, just as I do!



The Arabic countries were getting rich when they were making $3 a barrel for their crude oil - and now, they are simply getting richer off a product priced at whatever traffic will bear. And our government, along with Capitalistic futures investors are getting rich right along with them - on the backs of an economically strapped society slowly drowning as former corporations and jobs disappear over distant foreign horizons, and we slowly degenerate into a society of minimum-wage burger-flippers.



It isn't particularly about Democrats vs Republicans, it's about lost compassion and integrity for the voting and customer base - and a willing eagerness to place profit above the health of our economy and society.



A couple here have said we only get what we are willing to settle for - and THEY have demonstarted a willingness to excuse government and big oil, while they criticise those of us actively complaining at the situation.



To me, it's better to at least publicly express my contempt for "business as usual", than it is to excuse and applaud it!

 

[rbattelle]

Refueling today I looked back at my first-ever refuel on my truck way back in 2003: $1. 539. Today I paid $3. 259. :{



The worst part? I LOVE driving my truck.



-Ryan

 

[Grayhackle]

I can't wait for that jerk to come on and tell you how adjusted for inflation blah blah blah. BS!

Diesel 3. 21 is the cheapest I can find around Tooele, Ut.

 

[klenger]

Sad part is that Conoco has a refinery right in Denver.

 

[Jaysyl]

3. 19 a gallon here in Las Vegas. I never thought I would see cheeper prices in Las Vegas than Utah.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Sadly, the EPA, environmentalists, and big oil/free enterprise apologists forget that uncontrolled energy costs don't just affect the soccer mom's SUV, but it also slows or stops the wheels of our large industries, agriculture and major transportation. Planes and trains run on fuel, and we see major airlines filing bankruptcy and related jobs going down the drain - as well as various scores of flights being severly limited, or cut completely.



A couple of months ago, it was quoted the over *500* small/medium trucking lines had been forced out of business due to uncontrolled fuel expenses since the first of 2005 - leaving a smaller number of larger outfits to manopolize that industry and pass higher costs on to ALL consumers - whether they are buying food, clothing, or ANYTHING carried on the bed of a truck - and what ISN'T?



NO, what we are seeing isn't a small, inconsequential bit of misery and inconvenience for a soccer mom and her SUV - or the guy driving down the road in what some call a "gross polluter" - the only wheels HE can afford to drive - It's about the very lifeblood of our country, what MADE us what we are, and until recently, KEPT us there.



Who will take over when the wheels of our industry and agriculture slow to a stop?



Better learn to speak Chinese!

 

[daveshoe]

I saw Diesel for 3. 39 and regular gas for 2. 39 at the SAME STATION at Dayton OH. this has me seeing red and thinking red as well. What has this price differential to do with the costs of crude and the cost of refining it?

 

[brods]

Will someone please explain what “actively complaining about the situation” on the TDR boards is supposed to accomplish. Has anyone proposed a course of action for change? Does anyone seriously think politicians will change policy or the price at the pump will go down because of complaints on this board?



So, is it complaining with the hopes that someone else will change things or is it complaining just for the sake of complaining? Either of those reasons certainly falls into the "spoiled American crybaby" mode. At what point is it just whining?



Even if someone researched the multitude of factors effecting prices and proposed realistic, practical solutions, it all comes down to action... . to what, if anything, each one of us actually does about it. The rest is just verbal masturbation.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I can't wait for that jerk to come on and tell you how adjusted for inflation blah blah blah. BS!

Diesel 3. 21 is the cheapest I can find around Tooele, Ut.

"Refueling today I looked back at my first-ever refuel on my truck way back in 2003: $1. 539. Today I paid $3. 259. "



well, SURELY your PAYCHECK has ALSO doubled since '03 to offset the doubled price you are paying for fuel and associated costs, RIGHT?



UNFORTUNATELY, those "jerks" don't realize, or care, that many folks PAYCHECKS haven't been "adjusted for inflation" to cope with the upward spiral of ALL the direct and associated expenses created by runaway energy costs...



It's lots easier to maintain a complacent and benign outlook on rising costs if YOUR bank account is still in good health and your home is warm, and your refrigerator and stomach full...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Will someone please explain what “actively complaining about the situation” on the TDR boards is supposed to accomplish. Has anyone proposed a course of action for change? Does anyone seriously think politicians will change policy or the price at the pump will go down because of complaints on this board?



So, is it complaining with the hopes that someone else will change things or is it complaining just for the sake of complaining? Either of those reasons certainly falls into the "spoiled American crybaby" mode. At what point is it just whining?



Even if someone researched the multitude of factors effecting prices and proposed realistic, practical solutions, it all comes down to action... . to what, if anything, each one of us actually does about it. The rest is just verbal masturbation.

I honestly believe comments on boards, and in threads like these ARE monitored and tabulated - and stats kept by individuals who DO have the power to stimulate change.



AND, some of us HAVE suggested various forms of corrective action - such as a corporate oil company profits cap that forces them to plow back a stipulated percentage of profits above specified levels into development and distribution of alternative fuels such as solar and bio fuels.



Somehow, I suspect you will find fault with THAT action and suggestion as well...



SO, the question is, what do YOU think about current fuel price trends - and if you DON'T like them, what are YOU doing about it - just sitting silently and waiting/hoping they will go away, or someone will pay the increases FOR you?

 

[rbattelle]

I've been lead to believe that railroads are significantly more fuel efficient than trucks in terms of fuel burn vs. cargo weight. If that's true, how about we Build RR depots and new lines all over the country. Then use medium-duty trucks to make the run from the railroad depot to the stores.



I suppose it's too late for that. Was the elimination of the majority of rail lines in the US another example of shortsightedness? Or is the current system a result of positive evolution toward a more efficient infrastructure? Anyone know?



-Ryan

 

[RGardner]

The one thing that each and every one of us can do is to write our senators and representatives. Writing or better yet visiting them when they are home makes more difference than we think. Write them a letter telling them what these prices are doing to you and your family. What you think they are doing to the economy. It seems that every time that congress looks at fuel prices they decline... hmmmm strange. Write your congressmen, that is something we can do and I believe that it will make a difference.

 

[dhill]

I've been lead to believe that railroads are significantly more fuel efficient than trucks in terms of fuel burn vs. cargo weight. If that's true, how about we Build RR depots and new lines all over the country. Then use medium-duty trucks to make the run from the railroad depot to the stores.



I suppose it's too late for that. Was the elimination of the majority of rail lines in the US another example of shortsightedness? Or is the current system a result of positive evolution toward a more efficient infrastructure? Anyone know?



-Ryan

Here on the west coast, over half of the trains carry cargo containers and truck trailers. I don't know about the fuel burn vs. cargo weight, but when my new truck was on the train from Tx. to Wa. it averaged about 8 mph for the trip. Time has to account for something and when I'm waiting for something to be shipped UPS, I don't want to wait three weeks or longer to go coast to coast. I don't care how efficient the train is, I say, don't use if.



Dave

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

again... the I want it NOW stupidness rears its ugly head. No wonder the fuel/energy costs are sky-high..... and its just going to get worse.



One of the reasons I wont be bringing kids into this world..... we sure are leaving a real craphole future for them with our shortsightedness and me, me, me and RIGHT NOW attitude.



And yes... it was shortsightedness and the me, me, me attitude and the power of the almighty instant (instead of long-term) buck that got rid of most rail lines.



Flame all you want. I'll see you me, me, me, thinkers in hell anyway.



have a good day.

 

[thomase]

I've found a fairly simple short term solution: I use 55 gallon plastic drums and a 100 gallon tank and fill up 150 - 200 gallons at a time. This generally lasts about a month for me and at the same time I am watching gasbuddy.com prices looking for the next opportunity to buy in bulk.



Big companies do this type of thing all the time by purchasing futures and options.



The other option is bioD. Here in Houston it is 2. 85/gallon right now.

 

[JasonCzerak]

i heard a romour that J. B hunt and Shinder (sp?) will stop operations if Diesel hits $5/gallon.

 

[brods]

I've been lead to believe that railroads are significantly more fuel efficient than trucks in terms of fuel burn vs. cargo weight. If that's true, how about we Build RR depots and new lines all over the country. Then use medium-duty trucks to make the run from the railroad depot to the stores.



I suppose it's too late for that. Was the elimination of the majority of rail lines in the US another example of shortsightedness? Or is the current system a result of positive evolution toward a more efficient infrastructure? Anyone know?



-Ryan

Ryan, I asked a similar question in the 70's and was told that way back when the government did not allow railroads to own trucking companies for fear of a monopoly. I assume now the problem is the truckers would not want to lose the long haul business. I can't imagine that running 200 trucks from the east coast to the west coast is more efficient that running one train with 100 cars. Not to mention reduced traffic, less wear and tear on the roads, etc.

 

[dhill]

I see one of your hobbies is "railroads". Someday you may just have to deal with them like I have.



You have a good day too!



Dave

again... the I want it NOW stupidness rears its ugly head. No wonder the fuel/energy costs are sky-high..... and its just going to get worse.



One of the reasons I wont be bringing kids into this world..... we sure are leaving a real craphole future for them with our shortsightedness and me, me, me and RIGHT NOW attitude.



And yes... it was shortsightedness and the me, me, me attitude and the power of the almighty instant (instead of long-term) buck that got rid of most rail lines.



Flame all you want. I'll see you me, me, me, thinkers in hell anyway.



have a good day.

 

[brods]

I honestly believe comments on boards, and in threads like these ARE monitored and tabulated - and stats kept by individuals who DO have the power to stimulate change.

Scary thought.

AND, some of us HAVE suggested various forms of corrective action - such as a corporate oil company profits cap that forces them to plow back a stipulated percentage of profits above specified levels into development and distribution of alternative fuels such as solar and bio fuels.



Somehow, I suspect you will find fault with THAT action and suggestion as well...

Not at all. Oil companies give lip service to that idea all the time. Chevron and BP along with others come to mind as oil companies recently taking adds in magazines proclaiming they are doing just what you have suggested. I do not believe they will actually propose anything that will hurt their bottom line, which is why the money should go to an independent research agency instead. I think it is a great idea and thought we had federal funding for just such research after the 70's crisis, but I guess those that oppose government spending shut it down. So no I don’t find fault with realistic suggestions to improve the situation, just have a problem with irrational complaining just for the sake of complaining.

SO, the question is, what do YOU think about current fuel price trends - and if you DON'T like them, what are YOU doing about it - just sitting silently and waiting/hoping they will go away, or someone will pay the increases FOR you?

Me? I don’t recall making dozens of posts complaining, so I have nothing to justify, but I will answer you anyway. Like everyone else I don’t like it. I realize how limited my ability to change the situation is. I believe you questioned why we should have to cut back consumption. Supply and demand. If, as someone posted, there is very little storage capacity, and if we all cut back some, there will soon be excess supply and prices will drop. So you don't have to cut back, but doing so will lower the prices and help those who will be the hardest hit. To that end my CTD sits parked and I drive a 92 Saturn that gets 30 mpg city. We have also turned down the heat to 66 degrees to save fuel oil. We try to consolidate trips. Thats about it.



Believe it or not, I do agree with many of the problems you’ve brought up and feel that this is just the beginning of much worse economic times for our country's long term future, regardless of what happens with this current fuel issue. Ok I went, so what have you done?