capitalism gone wild

[crobertson1]

This price gouging with diesel fuel is absurd. It is all about supply and demand. There are so many more diesels on the road now, that the oil companies profits may have slipped a little and they can't have that. I'm all for capitalism and profits, that's the name of the game. But I'd be all for some kind of regulating the profits of two industries-energy and medical care. Those are two industries that have society at their mercy. They are not luxury items. We can do very little, if anything about those prices/costs. The only other industry I can think of like that, is the food industry, but we don't have the out of control cost problem in that area. I'm not advocating cutting profits so much that the companies are in jeopardy, just keeping profits reasonable so that we aren't being raked over the coals. I saw on Bill O'Reilly that oil company PROFITS last year were like 140 BILLION dollars. I think I remember that correctly.



BTW, we are cutting back too. $3. 39/gal in our area for diesel. The CTDs are parked a lot.

 

[fkovalski]

conoco is the worst offender here, always higher,

Yes, but Conoco is (ahem)... . "Premium Diesel. " What does that mean anyway???



The most reasonable place up here in SumCo is a high volume place that is now getting $337/ gal (23 Oct 05. ) Thaey jumped 20 cents OVERNIGHT this past week!!

Better learn to speak Chinese!

You ‘aint kiddin there, Gary!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Believe it or not, I do agree with many of the problems you’ve brought up and feel that this is just the beginning of much worse economic times for our country's long term future, regardless of what happens with this current fuel issue. Ok I went, so what have you done?"



Thought we'd already covered that!



My part so far has been VERY active participation in local letters in newspapers, and ongoing commentary participation in forums like THIS on, because I am convinced various agencies DO monitor, tabulate and report public opinion acroos a WIDE variety of venues.



Personally, I think purely sitting quietly in a corner doing NOTHING will ACCOMPLISH the same = *NOTHING!*



And ridiculing or downplaying active and open discusion on the subject is even worse...



Do any really think a passive and muted consumer base would motivate at least the SMALL downward run in fuel prices we are now seeing - that governmental and refiner individuals in positions of power would be just as sensitive and responsive to the basic needs and health of our country purely as a matter of "Capitalistic conscience" - and decide to toss us a small bone to keep us quiet?



Sure - just about as much as I believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy...



Ideas and personal action? Here's a couple:



"With all due respect, relying upon governmental or oil company explanations is a lot like asking the fox what happened to the chickens...



While pointing out what appears to be obscene government (THEY don't dig wells or refine oil, yet make more per gallon profit than the refiners do!) and oil company profits, the larger topic and VASTLY larger contributor to fuel costs, is what price is demanded for crude oil by the Arabic nations - OPEC.



They were getting rich decades ago when crude was at $3 a barrel - and now we see that price greatly increased - and why? Has it become harder or more costly - by a factor of 20, for them to produce and market their oil?



Sure, we have supply, profit and pricing problems INSIDE our borders - but those pale in comparison to what the guys in the Arabic countries are doing to energy prices, just because they CAN"



Another:



I have been increasingly tempted to start my own small letter writing campaign, focusing upon irritation over seeming irrational pricing of fuels at the pump.



At first, I thought a large number of letters arriving daily on the White House doorstep would get some attention - but THEN I realized even MORE action and attention would result if those bags full of letters were written as "open letters to the current administration", and sent to NBC, CBS and all other major media headquarters - they are always looking for new ways to embarrass Bush, and would likely jump at the chance to place these letters prominently in their newscasts - and that MIGHT generate more focused attention to the issue - maybe even some action...



Yes, I feel that the more and longer we LOUDLY and OPENLY make our anger and frustration known, the more likely we are to obtain results - and that complaints direct to the parties responsible for setting policies and pricing MIGHT not be as effective as the same complaints directed to mass media in an effort towards generating greater public outcry and support - after all, letters to government and oil companies mostly just get swept under rugs and disappear.



OR, we can just sit quietly, and "hope it all gets better... "

 

[radar doctor]

Wow, This Is Something Else... i'm 68 On A Fixed Income, My 03 4x2 Is Parked In The Garage, Get It Out On Sunday. . in 98 I Went To Alaska In A 95 Ctd. ran Over 12,000 Miles In About 89 Days, Burned 702 Gallons Of Diesel, The Highest Price I Paid Was Around $1. 70. . My Wife And I Love To Travel Through Out The Us. We Spend Money When We Do That. Now, We Can't Aford To Hardly Go To Church On Sunday... what We Have To Do Is (with Out) A Lot Of Things Like Movies, Pro Games Fishing And Hunting, Because There Isn't Enough Money To Go Around,,,guess We Could Go To Work For Big Mac Or Wally World, But Mom Has Cancer, I've Had 4 Bypasses And Taking Care Of Mom... If I Could , I'd Find A Way To Make Enough Just So We Could Drive Around And See The Leaves Change And Listen To The Radio In The Truck... if You Think Writing Letters Will Help ,, Let Me Know, I'll Join The Band Wagon. . If I Look Hard I Think We Still Have A Lead Pencil With A Eraser Around Here..... i Love The Tdr, My Free Country, And God... doc... .

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

I see one of your hobbies is "railroads". Someday you may just have to deal with them like I have.



You have a good day too!



Dave

LOL... . I used to railroad... . was in the Mechanical/Locomotive dept. Still saw all the stupidity of management and marketing though. (grapevine was great for that kind of info).

 

[brods]

My part so far has been VERY active participation in local letters in newspapers, and ongoing commentary participation in forums like THIS on, because I am convinced various agencies DO monitor, tabulate and report public opinion acroos a WIDE variety of venues.



Personally, I think purely sitting quietly in a corner doing NOTHING will ACCOMPLISH the same = *NOTHING!*

So just talk then. Should I infer that my conserving fuel equates to sitting quietly in the corner and doing nothing? Do you feel that the laws of supply and demand do not apply to oil? For if they do, even if only somewhat, that means the most powerful tool for change we have as consumers is our money. The quickest way to make an impact is to radically conserve. Show them we are not junkies who can’t get by without a oil fix. Face it, most of us could easily cut back quite a bit and not seriously cramp our lifestyles. Have you cut back any?

And ridiculing or downplaying active and open discusion on the subject is even worse...

I don’t object to open discussion at all, but when the goal is to incite mass unrest, kind of a mob mentality, on public forums by posting inflammatory suppositions and conflicting or inaccurate information, yes I object to that. Let me ask you this, after all the ranting... um... . open discussion, can you explain the entire supply chain starting with the local gas station and working your way back to the oil well? No? How can you assign blame or make reasonable suggestions for change if you don’t have a good grasp of what is really happening? You’ve objected to our governments policies and blame them for this mess, yet your goal is to make enough noise so THEY, in their infinite wisdom, somehow make everything better again!?? What will be your benchmark for success, just low prices at the pump or something else?

Do any really think a passive and muted consumer base would motivate at least the SMALL downward run in fuel prices we are now seeing - that governmental and refiner individuals in positions of power would be just as sensitive and responsive to the basic needs and health of our country purely as a matter of "Capitalistic conscience" - and decide to toss us a small bone to keep us quiet?

If I understand that right, yes, I give them enough credit to think of their own long term success. To ruin the country’s economy will only kill future profits and risk the wrath of the nation, so much so that their political buddies will have to step in and at least make some token gestures on behalf of us peasants. I do agree with you that we should do something to help secure our long term well being (alternative energy sources, etc).

Yes, I feel that the more and longer we LOUDLY and OPENLY make our anger and frustration known, the more likely we are to obtain results - and that complaints direct to the parties responsible for setting policies and pricing MIGHT not be as effective as the same complaints directed to mass media in an effort towards generating greater public outcry and support - after all, letters to government and oil companies mostly just get swept under rugs and disappear.



OR, we can just sit quietly, and "hope it all gets better... "

I agree we should do something and that sending letters to the oil companies would be useless. Contacting your representatives is a good idea. BTW Your other thread is excellent. That is showing people a course of action. Urging people to write or email their congressman, to conserve, to get informed and to VOTE will be more productive than just stirring the pot.

 

[TLanier]

a few points:



the people who make the most money in this country (read: big oil and corporate big brother) could care less if our economy falls on its butt. they are leaches, finishing the job, and will soon have india and china's fresh blood to suck. we are millions willing to spend a buck. they are billions, just chomping the bit to be able to consume!



the disparity in diesel to gas prices is really odd, and personally infuriating because i like to drive effiecient diesels, most of which my country will not allow me to import.



while we were paying a buck a gallon, europe was paying 4. now we are paying 3, and europe is paying 7. seems like a worldwide problem.



an oil man was elected president, and we invade and occupy a huge oil producing middle eastern country, and NOW GAS PRICES GO UP? did i miss something???



WHAT AM I DOING ABOUT IT?

-i winterize my place, to save energy.

-i keep the heat down, and blankets on in the winter

-i dont use air conditioning (i live in dry denver), house or car

-i drive with an eggshell under the go pedal, unless i allow myself a little fun once in a while

-i drive the honda (27mpg) most of the time, including taking my wife to work and picking her up

-i plan on building an earthship house (www.earthship.com) which runs on solar power, thermal mass heat/cool (read, no fuel needed), catch water from the rain, reused grey water, etc.

-if i had that house, and not the appartment i live in, id be making biodiesel.

-i do not patronize or support any big corporation unless i absolutely have to, especially those who use machines to check out customers instead of giving a human being a job (home depot, for one)

-i ride my bike when i can, instead of driving

-i keep the heat level on my water heater turned way down; plenty of hot water for the two of us (turn the hot spigot up more, use less cold) for one shower a day, instead of keeping enough hot water around to shower five

people.



my . 02

 

[Kissfan113]

I say switch the railroads back to steam, place a terminal back in every major city and small town, and then go back to the old fashioned way of horse and buggy, if we did this (which we won't) i feel as though the oil companies might be somewhat worried, america is a large consumer, i know not a popular solution, but effective none the less

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

THIS, and related threads, seems to be saying that many are giving up on the America that used to be - on the way of life that caused the vast immigration from foreign shores to this "land of plenty and opportunity"...



Now, there are far fewer "opportunities", and "plenty" is rapidly vaporizing as well - and FAR too many seem to accept that as an unavoidable fact of life...



Sad.

 

[Jaysyl]

CAPITALISM is what makes AMERICA a great place to live. The AMERICA I live in still has many, many, many opportunitys. The Sky is Falling cry of this thread is what is Sad.

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

I say switch the railroads back to steam, place a terminal back in every major city and small town, and then go back to the old fashioned way of horse and buggy, if we did this (which we won't) i feel as though the oil companies might be somewhat worried, america is a large consumer, i know not a popular solution, but effective none the less

Fastest way to this era would be a few Trident *oopsies* in low orbit. EMP would wipe out everything electrical... and definitely all computers.

 

[Rman]

I saw this morning ConocoPhilips posted a 89% increase in profit. That's really, REALLY out of hand. I was a somewhat supporter of supply side economics, but it has gotten out of hand and is down right theivery, the SEC needs to get involved NOW.

 

[klenger]

The part of this that I don't understand is why the Feds allowed all the oil company mergers over the last few years. Sort of puts a crip in the old competition.



There was a story on Fox News a few weeks ago where they interviewed the owner of a convenience store, and he told how he was only making a small profit, and that there was no price fixing. Then he went on to say that every morning he would go to the website of the oil company who he bought his gas from to find out what price to sell it for that day. Doens't that sound like price fixing to you? Duuuuh.

 

[crobertson1]

I heard on the news today, that Conoco reported RECORD profits for the last quarter. Surprise, surprise! Almost 10 BILLION !

 

[TLanier]

conoco, exxon mobile, bp, all RECORD profits. exxon actually had 9. 8 billion, the highest ever profit for anyone in WORLD history.



nah, the sky aint fallin.



watched cspan on a us house debate today. apparently, all the refineries were not closed down by tree huggers; big oil let them close, because they saw opportunity for huge profits with a smaller supply... ... hmm, wonder if they were right.



to they guy who thinks there is still opportunity, be sure to let me know where, i could use some. so could most of my neighbors, and most of the people i talk to for that matter.



record us gas prices, and record oil corp profits. nafta and other laws selling our jobs to china. someone is getting rich selling us, and it isnt anyone on this board.



our opportunites will soon be to work for walmart or another corp, as their underpaid slave.



what to do?

dont buy chinese

dont buy big corp if you can help it

dont work for big corp if you can help it

drive alot less

write your congressman and every other politician every day

tell everyone else to do the same.

dont elect another oil ***** to the highest office.

 

[Champane Flight]

You know

ConocoPhillips does not own the refinery in Denver anymore it is owned by Suncor. Why should this company apoligize for making a profit? They sat at the same stock price for twenty years, then they merge and people start to realize that merged they hold great potential. Spoiled on cheap oil, and now you get a taste of what the rest of the world is paying. Too bad, so sad, now if you want to bring the prices down, STOP BUYING, or buy stock in COP... .



ConocoPhillips rides oil prices to big profits rise

US oil giant ConocoPhillips has reported vast increases in first quarter profits as high world oil prices continue to put a smile on the corporate faces of the big oil companies.



29 Apr 2005, 08:42 GMT - ConocoPhillips has increased profits in the first three months of the year by a massive 80% over the previous year as its income came in at $2. 9 billion. The rise eclipsed BP's declaration two days ago of a 29% increase in profits.



Earnings per share were $4. 10, up from $2. 33 a share in the same quarter of 2004, while revenue increased 29% to $38. 9 billion from $30. 2 billion a year earlier.



However, the Houston based oil producer said that profits could have been even better as unscheduled shutdowns in its oil and gas production fields and downtime in its refining operations reduced output and therefore earnings. The company said that it had used only 92% of its production capacity in the quarter.

 

[TLanier]

does no one see anything wrong with gas prices here skyrocketing because of fewer refineries operating (due directly to the big oil companies keeping it that way to restrict supply/jack the price), and oil companies making RECORD profits.



this is not an end to cheap oil. this is the beginning of oil companies figuring out how to really stick it to us and get away with it! if it were the true end of cheap oil, then big oil's profits would not be RECORD!!!!!!



i wonder why OIL companies are getting away with what they are doing? hmm, OIL president, coincidence???

 

[DHayden]

i wonder why OIL companies are getting away with what they are doing? hmm, OIL president, coincidence???

Hmm if I can think of ANYTHING I'll blame Bush,its quick, its easy and requires no more thought into the issue, lets do it! Come on kids, we have lots of elected officials that are screwing us over 6 ways from sunday. Nothing is going to change until we make them. Blaming the one guy at the top is the easiest, but it isnt going to get anything done.

 

[klenger]

Has anyone heard of any suggestions from the Dems, other than adding huge taxes on fuel so that no one can afford it? Yea, let's give our money to the gov't instead of the oil companies. I'll take my chances with free enterprise.

 

[crobertson1]

Hmm if I can think of ANYTHING I'll blame Bush,its quick, its easy and requires no more thought into the issue, lets do it! Come on kids, we have lots of elected officials that are screwing us over 6 ways from sunday. Nothing is going to change until we make them. Blaming the one guy at the top is the easiest, but it isnt going to get anything done.

Thank you. Wasn't it President Bush who wanted to drill up north to diminish our demand for foreign oil?