Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Carter relocation questions

[RobertMiller1]

I plan on buying a Carter 4101P (100gph, 15psi) electric fuel pump and locating it near the tank.



Can someone tell me the part number for the LP pigtail connnecter and who sells one online? Not near a cummins dealer.



Also, some of you are using/advocating a 'bypass' valve incase of carter failure/blockage? do you have a part number and provider?







many thanks.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Cummins part # for the pigtail extension:



4025182



I made my own bypass valve, and think it's a good idea - I hope you aren't adding a 15 PSI pump to the existing one - you will end up with FAR too much PSI...

 

[RobertMiller1]

no, relocating LP to rear, and using 15psi instead of 7psi carter. (maybe) summitracing has both. dual parallel 7psi is another consideration. Wonder what the output would be ? 7psi I'm thinking.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Well, the STOCK DC LP is rated at 15 PSI or so - only time the Carter 4601 7-9 PS! pumps are used is when they are being used as pushers along with the stock pump - so why not simply USE the existing pump, and move IT to the new location? Basically. the model Carter you plan to use is the same PSI and volume as the one you already have - unless you suspect it's bad...



In case you DO choose the move the stock LP. be aware that the hanger used to support the stocker ALSO is a block-off plate for a cavity into the engine block - so it MUST remain in place regardless of whether it's holding a pump or not...

 

[RobertMiller1]

I thought the stock lp was 7psi.



btw. . the p4600hp is 7psi the p4601hp is 15psi.



http://store.summitracing.com/defau...e=both&part=carter+electric+fuel+pump&x=0&y=0

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"btw. . the p4600hp is 7psi the p4601hp is 15psi. "



Probably - old age and poor memory...



BUT, the stocker IS a 15 PSI job!

 

[RobertMiller1]

i'm glad you pointed that out. ! I could have made a big mistake.

 

[clawson]

I am thinking of adding another pump. What should i buy. My factory one has 15psi at idle and i have brought it down to as low as 4psi(then let off). I am going to get injectors soon and would like to have 7psi at wot. Any help would be great.

 

[RobertMiller1]

There carter I mentioned is the same as the factory lift pump. Only you save considerable money. cummins sells it for over $150. chrysler even more. Greed *******s.



SummitRacing sells it for $89.



get it, remove the one up front, and install the new one near the fuel tank where it belonged in the first place. Get a fuel guage and isolator.

 

[Sticks]

Use 1/2" lines and all straight through fittings.



I moved mine about a month ago (OEM pump), and I see 16. 5 psi at idle, and I have yet to to pull the pressure below 13psi. 80mph on the highway = 14. 5 psi.



I have only 1 right angle fitting and that is under the filter.



A joist hanger from Home Depot works as a pump mount.

 

[Ramafid]

Gary,

Are you sure about the pump bracket being a block-off plate on the engine? I have had my pump bracket off now for nearly 80K miles and no problems. Just wondering. Anthony

 

[clawson]

so are you saying that there is no need to have two of them? Just relocate the factory one to the rear or would it be better to leave the stock one where it is and put another in the rear?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I've never removed the stock LP bracket to see what's behind it - only going by what others have posted here, and that's what they say.



As to what Carter pump to use as a pusher, along with the existing stocker, most of us use the Carter 4600 (yeah - I checked the number!) - it's a 7-9 PSI pump, and once installed, you will end up with about 22-24 PSI at idle and 15 PSI at full load as measured right at the VP-44 - and with all stock lines and fittings - at least that's what *I* have with the setup listed in my sig, which is only a Comp box - but I consistently read the same results from others using the same setup as mine.



As to the "need" for additional lines and special fittings, the stock stuff listed above will do quite adequately up to 500 HP or so = but if you have extra $$$ burning a hole in yer wallet...



And finally, one question *I* have, is if the Carter 4601 IS the same as the stock LP on our trucks, does IT also circulate raw fuel up inside the motor like our stock LP's do? The Carter 4601, unlike the stock Cummins LP, is sold to be used pumping fuels other than diesel - mainly gasoline - and I wonder if the more volatile nature of gasoline and lack of lubricating characteristics would allow fuel circulation inside the motor itself.



If the 4601 does NOT circulate fuel inside the motor as does the stock LP, that would eliminate the steady erosion of carbon brushes and other wear contaminents from the pump motor that then pass on to the stock fuel filter to be (hopefully) removed before entering the VP-44.



THAT would be a GOOD thing as I see it - and other than a possibly slightly reduced pump life from loss of diesel fuel's cooling and lubrication (questionable at best!), the use of a 4601 over the stock LP *might* be a wise choice...

 

[Big-D]

Gary - KJ6Q;



"In case you DO choose the move the stock LP. be aware that the hanger used to support the stocker ALSO is a block-off plate for a cavity into the engine block - so it MUST remain in place regardless of whether it's holding a pump or not... "



Gary, I don't know where you obtain your information from regarding blocking off a cavity into the engine block with this bracket, but this absolutely false. There is nothing behing the LP mounitng bracket except for a flat machined surfaced which the bracket mounts to.

Dave

 

[clawson]

What is the maximum psi that you should have going into the vp44?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Gary, I don't know where you obtain your information from regarding blocking off a cavity into the engine block with this bracket, but this absolutely false. "



(SIGH!)



I get my information from reading this, and other forrums rather thoroughly, daily - and when in doubt, I use that nifty feature provided here called "search"



IF you will use that feature to check a thread called "fuel pump mounting bracket" first posted by rrivelli, you will see where I got my wild idea - there HAVE been other posts on the same subject in other threads as well...



You're welcome...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"What is the maximum psi that you should have going into the vp44?"



Opinions vary - Bosch reps claim recommended operating PSI is about what DC provides, and that significantly more potentially endangers VP-44 internal seals. Still, one or more individuals have gone as high as 50-60 PSI without failure - but I have no idea WHY they would do that, or for how long. Some of us are running 20-25 PSI regularly with NO problems or failures *I* am aware of.

 

[ctopp]

I need to order a fuel gauge, but I think my factory lift pump is going bad. To complicate matters I have a 40 gallon in bed auxillary American Fuel Tank. I intercepted the factory fuel lines about half way between the lift pump and the tank and installed an electric selector valve (per instructions). This set up just adds to the suction pressure requirements of the lift pump. Not good.



I like the idea of the less expensive Carter pusher pump, because looks to me like I need 2 of em.

ctopp

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Big-D

There is nothing behing the LP mounitng bracket except for a flat machined surfaced which the bracket mounts to.

Dave

It might be particular to a specific series of engines. jrandol moved his LP and took the bracket with it and leaked a frightening amount of oil until he found the problem.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"It might be particular to a specific series of engines. "



YUP - my suspicion as well - tho all I've heard about DID have the block opening - but as has been said before, one tree doesn't make a forest - so there could easily be exceptions - it just pays to be forewarned and aware, which was why I brought it up in the first place...