CAT C-12 and MORE power!!!!

[E7mack96]

AS some may recall, I have a 2001 Western Star with a CAT c-12 430/445 rating.



The intake boost pressure runs about 22 lbs. stock.



I recently Blocked the wastegate on the CAT turbo and now, boost is up to 30+ lbs, and less smoke (minimally less). The driver says it runs faster, and he now can keep up with the 500 in the Mack, even though his unit runs about 80,000 vs. 74, 000 for the Mack.



Question 1 is:



Is it safe to do the to a CAT c-12. EGTS are lower, power is up. I just don't wanna toast a 10K+ engine



2nd Question:



Does anyone know tips on turning up the CAT or the Mack engines ????

 

[JLinder]

A friend of mine did the same thing to his C12 many moons ago. He just took a zip tie to the wastegate hose, and it works great. He has run this way for over 300k mi with no problems, and it seems Cat doesn't even care. Back when he was under warranty, he had the truck in for a few things and nobody ever said a thing about it.

 

[nickleinonen]

iirc, the c-12 is electronic right? the computer may store an overboost code. it uses the same kind of map sensor that pretty much everyone uses [some bosch sensor] you could put in a zener diode into the mix, to clip the voltage that the computer sees, or wire in a trim pot. to adjust what the computer sees. . but a little more boost ain't gonna hurt that kittycat one bit. they have a pretty stout top and bottem end. .

 

[JakeGMCHD]

You might want to check out http://www.tstproducts.com/N_14_trial.htm They offer elcetronic tuning for the C-12. This will add an additional 175hp in 25hp increments with safety built in. The price is a killer though.

 

[E7mack96]

I am aware of the pittsburg power setup, I just can't spend 2,400 on the dump truck for that. I was hoping someone knew of little things here and there to do to it.

 

[drees1]

Never defeat the wastegate on a CAT. And you better know what your doing if you defeat it on anything else. Of course we do not think about it on the dodge because it is pretty much proven ok. But on CAT C-10, C-12, 3406, C-15, C-16, it can cause the compressor wheel to burst, and may take out the intercooler too. The whole point of a wastegate is to use a smaller turbo for better cruising efficiency, and bleed off exhaust at high outputs. The bleed is for 2 reasons. 1. prevent damage to components from excessive boost pressue, (not usually a concern) and 2. Prevent overspeeding of the turbo, which is the problem. All turbos have an rpm limit. In many applications, blocking the wastegate will cause over speed and bursting of the turbo. A turbo is altitude compensating to a degree, and will have higher rpm for a given boost at altitude. Many blocked wastegate failures occur at higher altitude, but it can happen any where. I was service manager for CAT truck shop for 4 years, and denied plenty of turbo warrantys that came in with the wastegate hose pulled and a bolt stuck in it. Also, FYI, the C-12 has plenty of problems with turbo failure and headgaskets. Check out the service letters out there. If you have to buy a turbo or cartdrige, be sure you get the improved "boreless hub design" It has no nut on the compressor wheel, rather, the wheel itself screws on to the shaft. If you want to boost this engine, the TST kit would be the best thing, even if big bucks. Don't create problems you don't have. Trucking is expensive enough as it is. The C-12 gets as good or better mileage than anything. Let the cash saved on fuel be your reward, so what if it is a little slower on the grades. 435Hp is still respectable at 80,000 gvw. maybe a gearing change would help?? I'm just commenting from having been in the shop that fixes these things. No flaming intended.



Doug Rees

 

[TPyle]

As a CAT Truck Engine Rep let me back up what Mr. Rees has said. He is absolutley correct. Let me make a statement regarding warranty, including our Dodge's. A warranty statement is a legal contract between the warrator and the warrantee. A manufacturer (warrantor) cannot void a wattanty nor can the consumer (warantee) void it either. Warranty can, however, legally be denied. CAT warranty states that CAT is only obligated to replace the failed component. As a matter of practice, however, they will also replace "resultant damage". That is parts that were damaged as a result of the failed part. This is important to remember because your turbo is either out of warranty or about to be out of warranty (turbo is only covered for 2yrs/300K miles). But more than likley you have 5yr/500K ESC on the engine. Which means for example that if you were to drop a valve warranty would replace the head (if needed) and the cylinder pack. Lots of $$. Now lets say you bring your truck in for that dropped valve and even the average tech sees the wastegate defeated. Warranty is denied and you pay $$$. All for what? That C12 is putting out 445(max)hp and 1650 pt. Most drivers do not understand how to drive an electronic engine (CAT, Cummins, Detroit) to get the most power out and the best fuel effeciency. Please understand that my intention is not to be a smart a$$ rep but to be a helpful TDR member. Save the bombing for your Dodge. If you would like more info on how to get the most out pf your C12 pm me. I would be glad to help!

 

[rkressg]

Originally posted by E7mack96

I am aware of the pittsburg power setup, I just can't spend 2,400 on the dump truck for that. I was hoping someone knew of little things here and there to do to it.

Don't want to be a jerk, but Pittsburgh has an H on the end :-{}

 

[JLinder]

I guess it depends on who your dealer is. A trucking company in town has about 55 newer KW's, most have the C12. One of the first thing that happens after break-in is the wastegate mod. Not only do the engines pull harder, but the mileage seems to increase as well. I also know of several independants locally that have done the same thing with great results and no service/warranty problems. If you're worried about warranty, if the Manufacturer wants to void it they will for any reason. Kind of like with our trucks, you play the game and hope it doesn't bite you.

 

[E7mack96]

Thanks for the replies!

I am sorry that I forgot the H in the spelling of "Pittsburgh"



As for the mods, Yes the truck is now 2 years old and the turbo is out of warranty, but the engine does have the 5/500 plan.



The engine is more responsive, and hopefully will show an improvement in fuel economy. Currently, I think the Cat engines' fuel economy sucks (as compared to the Mack). I have a good driver in the Western Star. He watches EGTS, ect. while driving.



His only complaint is that the cruise is set at 65, and to get the extra power out of the CAT, you must use cruise. Most of the time, we are running at 70 mph. This is out of the cruise range.