Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Catchers and half throttle power?????

[DirtyDodge]

Bob and Marco,



Any new news here... Still looking for the cure for the 1/2 throttle response surge.



Thanks.

 

[fox]

Just to refresh my situation with everyone, I have learned to drive as Marco says. That is to walk into the throttle, no stabbing.

However, I now have added a TST PM3, and with the box on 3 or 4 there is no flat spot! She just gets up and runs.

So, the VP at its limits may have been the right response from very early! The box lets it fuel.

Again, the flat spot is not always there, most of the time it is. ( with the TST turned off of course).

 

[Walt-L]

Fox,

Thanks for the update. Iv relagated my CTD to plow truck only for the winter so I still have the surge in place.

If your TST box is infact the fix, would it be safe to say the smarty tuned down a notch or two on the timeing end might be a fix from the other side of the equation?

Bob, is the Smarty still going to be a $400 special consideration?

 

[fox]

One school of thought I had , was that the ECM was allowing too much timing at lower RPM. Like under 1700.

The extra fuel -TST- softens the injection event.

Feed back from someone with the surge and a Smarty, that will drop some timing and get back to us on the surge/driveability would be great.

 

[pcarlson]

Smarty #9: 55mph at 1500rpm in OD, give some throttle to pass (half-throttle max,probably less) it accelerates but not quickly. Rpm's hit 1800-2000rpm's and it is like NOX was added. If rpm's are above 1900 there is no surge.



Below 1800 no matter what gear or whether the converter is locked/unlocked, there is a delay/bogging feel below 1800 and a surge of power at the 1800 rpm and up. Easing into the throttle or nailing it produces the same surge and produces no black smoke.



Freeway driving at 70+mph the rpm's are above the surge range but on the two lane county rds where the speed is 55-60mph your right in the "Surge Sweet Spot".



IAT-replaced 25-30k ago

MAP- "" " " ""

APPS- reset with install of Smarty



Will try Bob's ECM reset by pulling the positive leads and then turning the key on to discharge.



Things I have noticed with the Smarty:



1. Surge (better described as a delay).

2. Auto shift points have changed (lower rpm) when nothing else has. What signals cross (feed) in the 2 connectors/interfaces between the ECM and PCM. Torque Management maybe??? TV Cable is set correctly per the service manual.

3. Idle seems smoother and quieter.



What it "reminds" me of is this:



4 barrel that opens the rear barrels and there isn't enough timing advance to get the fuel burnt, i. e. bogging down until the rpm's get up.



I hope I have covered my experiences in enough detail.

 

[PC12Driver]

What size wheel/exhaust housing are you running on your hybrid turbo?

 

[Fishin Guide]

Smarty #9: 55mph at 1500rpm in OD, give some throttle to pass (half-throttle max,probably less) it accelerates but not quickly. Rpm's hit 1800-2000rpm's and it is like NOX was added. If rpm's are above 1900 there is no surge.



Below 1800 no matter what gear or whether the converter is locked/unlocked, there is a delay/bogging feel below 1800 and a surge of power at the 1800 rpm and up. Easing into the throttle or nailing it produces the same surge and produces no black smoke.



Freeway driving at 70+mph the rpm's are above the surge range but on the two lane county rds where the speed is 55-60mph your right in the "Surge Sweet Spot".



IAT-replaced 25-30k ago

MAP- "" " " ""

APPS- reset with install of Smarty



Will try Bob's ECM reset by pulling the positive leads and then turning the key on to discharge.



Things I have noticed with the Smarty:



1. Surge (better described as a delay).

2. Auto shift points have changed (lower rpm) when nothing else has. What signals cross (feed) in the 2 connectors/interfaces between the ECM and PCM. Torque Management maybe??? TV Cable is set correctly per the service manual.

3. Idle seems smoother and quieter.



What it "reminds" me of is this:



4 barrel that opens the rear barrels and there isn't enough timing advance to get the fuel burnt, i. e. bogging down until the rpm's get up.



I hope I have covered my experiences in enough detail.

I have exactly the same situation as you do. I am running the Catcher, but it's exactly the same. I thought something was wrong with my VP.



I took it over to Bob's place and installed my stock ECM. Bob loaded the Smarty #9 and I took it for a drive. Virtually no change. Although the RPM that the surge happened at was about 100 RPM higher.



Got back to Bob's place, uninstalled the Smarty and got to go for a ride in his truck. His truck did exactly the same thing as mine. He had not heard of that specific issue until we took it for a ride.



I agree, running with the TST on completely eliminates the surge. But, It would be nice to be without the surging running box off. It is more than an annoyance to me. It's a smoke maker below 1800 RPM as I need a little more fuel or timing to get things lit. As soon as I hit 1800 RPM, there is an instant rise in boost. I go from around 18 psi to well over 30 psi in less than a second. Obviously, there is something not acting in a linear way.



Also, regarding the shift points, you now use less throttle to go the same speed. So, you are not pulling the Trans cable as far. Also, the APPS thinks that you are not using much throttle. So, it shifts. I have found that a heavy foot helps shift quality and I need to have DTT reset my shift points. Especially lockup. I cannot get lockup with OD locked out when going under 50 MPH on the Catcher alone.



Dave

 

[pcarlson]

PC12 Driver,



I run the 60mm wheel on the compressor side.



The truck ran and pulled great with the 1. 5's and EZ. Now with the 1. 5's and Smarty there is this obvious hesitation/surge.



Fishin Guide mentions, not performing in a linear way, that is my thought exactly. Something is going on with the fueling map below 1800rpm. Also I think your right on the transmission. I shouldn't have to run another box to do what this should be doing by itself. Maybe I sold the EZ to quickly??



Hopefully now that Bob has gotten to experience this first hand will help. Always better to experience first hand verses internet discriptions.



Keep me posted guys on where to go from here... .

 

[TClemens]

My 99 also has this issue with the catcher, when you roll into the throttle till the point it is floored then lift off a bit it will accelerate, I have learned to drive around it but I would sure like to see a solution for it, other than that it is great, mileage went up and the reponse is awesome, I also run 285/75/16s

 

[Marco]

Gang,

Please have a look into the Smarty thread in the Product R&D.

Read the last 2-3 pages, looks like I've found a cure for the surge.



Marco

 

[BarryG]

Marco:

Glad to hear that some progress has been/ is being made. After reading the thread you mentioned I have a question. Are we talking about the same issue?



I have one of your catchers. I had a problem of hitting a dead spot on the throttle. I would have to back off the throttle to get it to go. I could not drive through it, I would have to find the sweet spot with the go pedal. And then as time went by it would be harder and harder to find that sweet spot until an ecm reset then it would go back to just having to let off a bit. I also had some other seemingly unrelated issues. My grid heaters started acting up they would not shut off due to speed, only shut off after they timed out(approx 180 seconds). After a time they would not come on before start up only after startup and then cycle as normal but still not shutoff until they timed out even if doing 50mph. The ecm reset info that Bob W gave out would fix the grids not coming on before start up but did not fix them not turning off until they timed out. (I did find out several times that my truck will not start without grid heaters below 10 degress at 7k elevation though) Then as time went by they would not come on again and would have to reset again. As more and more time went by the time between resets shortened to the point of needing to do it daily which as you can imagine is quite a pain. Well I couldnt take it anymore nothing worse than trying to reset the ecm at 5am in freezing cold weather in my office work clothes.

You may remember I also had the codes 0500 and 0501 as I had previously mentioned in this thread. I had also changed the map and the IAT(to see if that helped the half throttle surge which it didnt) , the speed sensor in the rear diff and then the transmission (to see if that would fix the 500 and 501 codes as well as the grid heater issue) all to no avail. So I ended up taking the smarty off and reinstalling the stock ecm. Well what I and possibly you as well, thought were unrelated ecm problems turns out it had something to do with the ecm as all the codes and surge/dead spot all went away immediately and have not resurfaced since in the last 5k+ miles or so.



I had (still have, though it is sitting in a box in a cabinet in the garage) the catcher and had been wanting to upgrade to the smarty during the inital upgrade offer you had to see if that would fix the issues as well as get all the other smarty features. However since people still experienced the surge issue I could not see and you concurred to wait until we see what happens. Why spend a few more hundred dollars and still have the same issue. I have a rather expensive paperweight at the moment and would love to turn into something more usefull (by the way no flame intended whatsoever you play you pay particularily with a new type product and its possible bugs). Is it time to upgrade so I can get back to fun driving and performance or still wait and see?

 

[Marco]

Barry,

Sorry for the late response! I've been road testing stuff in the last couple days and have not been in the office. Well almost.



I believe that your "flat spot" is most likely what others have called "surge".

It's been a long and difficult road ( Thanks for all the testing and sharing the findings goes to the TDR members involved!) to get that problem solved.

I still have no idea what causes the 500 & 501 codes. Those are PCM related and I can't seem to find any reason why something in the ECM should/could cause them.



Bob Wagner has several Smarty's that he's shipping arround to customers who want to try it out before the purchase. I think that could be a very good solution for you. Try it out and see if your problems are solved...



Marco

 

[BarryG]

Marco:

No problem on the later reply. I am sure you are swamped. Great news. I will get a hold of Bob and see what he can do. I know you cant see it but I am very excited about this Oo.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Barry and I have a plan to get it fixed. Thanks for everything Marco

 

[BarryG]

Well Bob sent me a demo box to see if the new software version would solve the problem I was having with the catcher and sure as heck the new software solved my very bad surge/flat spot issue Oo. . It is still a bit noticeable on level 8 or 9 but even then nothing like it was before. In fact even on 8 or 9 I personally would consider it a non issue now.



Kudos go out to Marco and everyone else who helped in resolving the issue. Would love to know what ended up being the cause.



Also great thanks goes to Bob Wagner for his attitude on outstanding customer service.

 

[Marco]

Glad to hear that "your" problem is FINALLY solved! Oo.



Marco

 

[Walt-L]

Just thought I would close on this thread today since I to have had the opertunity to flash in SW#7 in to my Catcher ECM thanks to Bob and Marco's tireless work on finding the solution to my dead petal-surge at let off problem. Now the throttle has full range responce rather than 80 percent of the throttle responce in the first 1/4 petal of the original full Catcher! The boost (power) responce is now perfectly in step with throttle petal movement. SW#7 is it for me. As far as power is concerned, Im pretty much done..... well, maybe a nice exhaust some day !!

Bob, Marco

My hat is off to you guys!

Thank You for the CTD Iv always wanted

Walt

 

[Bob Wagner]

Thanks for posting your results and yes the package arrived. Thank you again