Caterpillar ACERT 6.6L - Why not?

[Ncostello]

CAT finally came up with something smaller than the 7. 0L inline 6 that looks like it would be an excellent fit in a pickup. The ACERT 6. 6L.



However we all know "we heard" CAT isn't into pickups. But my gosh!!! You can get a CAT diesel in everything from a lawnmower to the largest heavy equipment. And everything on and off road in between.



If Ford is so plagued with Inter-trashional problems... and CAT seems to want to get into every market on the planet, then WHY NOT?



A rock solid 6. 6L Cat in a Ford Superduty would simply be an unbeatable combination. I can't believe it wouldn't be worth it for CAT. You know Ford sells more trucks than CAT sells skid steer loaders, excavators and D11 dozers combined. You can get on-road CAT engines in everything from the biggest Peterbilt to the F650.



I'm not a CAT for FORD fan in particular... and I've no business degree. Just one in Civil Engineering. But I just can't help to picture something like a black Superduty F350 single rear wheel longbed crewcab 4x4 sitting in my driveway with yellow iron under the hood... all from the factory.



Imagine... D6N Dozer and F250... same engine. Hmmmmm.

 

[mhuggler]

There are 2 different Cat 6. 6l engines; 1 is made by Cat themselves and the other is made by Perkins(painted yellow and labeled Cat of course). If it's Cat's engine, it has the same dimensions and weight as the C7(which is actually a 7. 2l). Obviously way too big and/or heavy. If it's a Perkapillar, it would be logistically possible, but it would never pass emissions. BTW, the Perkins is much better!

 

[DCreed]

it would be logistically possible, but it would never pass emissions. BTW, the Perkins is much better!

Thus the reason CAT has no interest in a pick-up engine, EPA. Millions would be spent on the emissions systems development and then on tuning to get back the lost power. If you like the ford body so much get one, then if you want it to work throw a cummins in it!:-laf

 

[BILLVO]

I work on cats everyday and believe me the accert has plenty of problems to work out yet. The fuel system has been bullet proof over the HUEI system but we have seen cam failures and oil samples that are always high in soot since new.

 

[Ncostello]

I've seriously considered just buying an F250 or 350 Supercab 4x4 SRW with a 5. 4L V8... and building a 12V Cummins to install at a later date. That way I get the use of the truck until the engine is done and I can have everything ready to go in advance. I can find some pretty good deals on the 5. 4 trucks.



Anything labeled Powerstroke instantly adds thousands to the price of a used F-Series... yet does little for me as far as value is concerned.



I suppose I'd take a 2000 thru 2002 7. 3L Powerstroke truck... but reluctantly. The older 7. 3L's at least have somewhat in the way of reliability.



We have a C7 GMC firetruck on our vol fire dept. And an ISC8. 3 in another truck. Both are comparable but the CAT engine definately seems to like to puff soot out the tailpipe alot. Not sure what was accomplished on emissions on this particular ACERT engine.

 

[Bill Stockard]

If Ford is so plagued with Inter-trashional problems... and CAT seems to want to get into every market on the planet, then WHY NOT?

Ford is designing their own diesel engine for the Ford Super Duty line. It is forecast to be avaiable for production sometime in 2010 which is one of the reasons for the Navistar/Ford lawsuit since Navistar's contract with Ford is through 2012.



Bill

 

[rbattelle]

I work on cats everyday and believe me the accert has plenty of problems to work out yet.

I've heard this from other folks familiar with the new ACERT system too.

There was a time when I had a romantic view of Cat engines. Now I'm under the impression they are notoriously expensive to repair and ACERT isn't really working out too well. I never liked the HEUI system - at least they ditched that.

Nevertheless, I think many (most?) people out there continue to have a love affair with Cat engines. Particularly Ford owners (I see so many Fords with Cat stickers and mudflaps all over).

If Ford put a Cat engine in their trucks, and actually promoted it that way, they would sell a billion trucks. [Well, maybe not a billion, but a lot anyway].

Ryan

 

[Garlic]

CAT is looking to manufacture their own on highway trucks in the future (not real near). This would be a big boom for CAT to have there own line of Class 4,5 and 7 trucks. This may possibly lead to LD units as well. CAT is having problems with their emissions systems but have the money to spend trying to figure them out. Next year they will be installing Cats and DPF on new construction equipment and distributing Flashware and filters to refit equipment already in the field. I don't know where they are going to put the devices because they are huge! But they are customer servicable. As big as the trucks and scrapers are there is very little room in them for additional exhaust pieces.

 

[TFucili]

CAT is looking to manufacture their own on highway trucks in the future (not real near). This would be a big boom for CAT to have there own line of Class 4,5 and 7 trucks. This may possibly lead to LD units as well. CAT is having problems with their emissions systems but have the money to spend trying to figure them out. Next year they will be installing Cats and DPF on new construction equipment and distributing Flashware and filters to refit equipment already in the field. I don't know where they are going to put the devices because they are huge! But they are customer servicable. As big as the trucks and scrapers are there is very little room in them for additional exhaust pieces.

I'll take your word for it, but I find it hard to believe. They have made noises in the past about withdrawing from the over the road engine business because of the moving-target emissions and the boom or bust nature of the North American trucking business. Getting into the truck side of the business would only increase their exposure to the market troughs, and ever-present labor issues.

 

[Greenleaf]

At a recent CAT tech school in Columbus OH, one of the bus mechanics piped up and asked about a CAT in a Ford. The tech rep said that CAT is not interested in mass producing a cheap/throw-a-way engine that is required by Ford.



That is what he said. Not my words.

 

[Mhannink]

my understanding it this 6. 6 acert is a true cat and is the same size as the 5. 9(i have seen it) as far as problems i have heard too much though at my dealership(small) we dont get a whole lot of new stuff. the thing can already pass all the new emmissions so nothing would need to be done there. just throw the dpf and crap on and put it in the ford.



i think this would be a sweet combo and would sell a lot of trucks if it where so. in my opinion for needs to get on there knees and really please cat so they can get this engine in their trucks

 

[DCreed]

in my opinion ford needs to get on there knees and really please cat so they can get this engine in their trucks

I think they (ford) have taken it hard enough from international on the last couple of boat anchors they've used it may take ALOT of pleasing to pursuade CAT to put thier name on something like an f350:-laf

 

[rbattelle]

Why do Cat engines have such a mystique about them? I mean, what's so great about them? What sets them apart from the rest of the manufacturers (other than yellow paint)?



I agree, a Cat-equipped truck (regardless brand) would probably sell great. But why?



Is it just anything painted yellow and labeled Caterpillar is great? Or do they have some mechanical or metallurgical superiority to everyone else?



[I suspect it's the former. ]



Ryan

 

[Mhannink]

Why do Cat engines have such a mystique about them? I mean, what's so great about them? What sets them apart from the rest of the manufacturers (other than yellow paint)?



I agree, a Cat-equipped truck (regardless brand) would probably sell great. But why?



Is it just anything painted yellow and labeled Caterpillar is great? Or do they have some mechanical or metallurgical superiority to everyone else?



[I suspect it's the former. ]



Ryan

really its both. there is a lot of history to cat. they set the standards that all others have gone. cat is the one that set up api the standards that all our oils are based off of. cat came out with new systems that worked. cat was the first engine company to hit a million miles before overhauls. cat came out with the first track type tactor(hence the name) cat is the the force behind most all developments in the diesel world. one interesting fact that i have learned about cat, is a bolt from the track of a d8(iirc) is stong enough to lift the whole dozer in the air(think ford f150 commercial).



now this is coming from a cat employee and this was what was taught to me by our instructor who one is one of the best and most honest people i have ever met and 2 was not a cat guy before he started teaching he was a cummins man. so i feel what he is saying about cat is the truth.

 

[BILLVO]

really its both. there is a lot of history to cat. they set the standards that all others have gone. cat is the one that set up api the standards that all our oils are based off of. cat came out with new systems that worked. cat was the first engine company to hit a million miles before overhauls. cat came out with the first track type tactor(hence the name) cat is the the force behind most all developments in the diesel world. one interesting fact that i have learned about cat, is a bolt from the track of a d8(iirc) is stong enough to lift the whole dozer in the air(think ford f150 commercial).



now this is coming from a cat employee and this was what was taught to me by our instructor who one is one of the best and most honest people i have ever met and 2 was not a cat guy before he started teaching he was a cummins man. so i feel what he is saying about cat is the truth.

Cat wasn't the first to build a track machine. There were many around long before cat was even a company.



Remember Holt? this was the name before they went to caterpillar. That is where cat got their track machine from.

 

[TAbbott]

rbattelle asked: "What sets them apart from the rest of the manufacturers (other than yellow paint)?"



I think as far as their engines are concerned, their reputation goes back to the days of the mechanically controlled engines and Cat's use of what they called a "Full Range Governor" as opposed to the typical automotive type governor of the day, as used by Cummins, Detroit, etc.



The full range governor acted like a cruise control, actually more or less setting an engine rpm by throttle position that the engine would then try to hold without changing the throttle position, regardless of load.



Come to a hill, the engine would start to lug back a little and then automatically provide more fuel to maintain speed, much like today's cruise control. The drivers like this feature, believing the engines made lots more power than competitive models which required you to add throttle to accomplish the same task. On those older engines, after the full range governor "did it's thing", stepping down on the throttle was a lot like stepping on a marshmellow -- nothing happened at all.



The long haul truckers of the day had small adjustable rods that hooked on the dash and depressed the thottle pedal to a given point. With the full range governor, this setup acted like a poor man's cruise control long before actual cruise controls were available. For someone spending 10 hours a day or longer with their foot in one position, this feature was a real boon and the competitive engines wouldn't work nearly as well with this setup.

 

[Mhannink]

Cat wasn't the first to build a track machine. There were many around long before cat was even a company.



Remember Holt? this was the name before they went to caterpillar. That is where cat got their track machine from.

still cat benjiman holt and james best both built tack type tractors holt moved to peroia(sp?) and became cat so yes cat did build the first track type tractor. mr. holt was its founder.

 

[MOates]

I work at the Freightliner plant in Cleveland NC, worked on the engine assembly line for 1 1/2 years before becoming a QC inspector for the past 8 1/2 years on the same line.



On the '07 EPA C15 ACERT engines that are coming thru, they do look to have at least a couple things set up better than the competition.



For one, they call their EGR setup CGI - Cooled Gas Injection. The EGR taps off the exhaust downstream of the DP filter, cutting way down on the soot that gets sucked back into the engine, and then gets sent thru a water cooler before it gets to the EGR valve. I imagine that would help prolong the life of the EGR valve.



And for doing regen on the DP filter, they just don't dump extra fuel into the engine or into the exhaust. Downstream of the series turbos, they have a burner assembly with several small fuel lines and nozzles, and a spark plug with it's own ignition system to light off the fuel when regen is required.



On the other hand, it's a sad day indeed when the EPA forces them to add so much crap that they end up putting spark plugs on a diesel!

 

[jwgary]

one interesting fact that i have learned about cat, is a bolt from the track of a d8(iirc) is stong enough to lift the whole dozer in the air(think ford f150 commercial).

Sorry, but not really that impressive. I'm looking at my list of screws from Unbrako and it looks like you could lift one of our trucks with a 1/4-28 fine thread screw. The Ultimate tensile strength is 6910 lbs. That's not a very big screw. I don't know how much a D8 weighs, but it wouldn't take that large of a diameter to get to that weight. A 1" bolt can hold 60 tons. Unbrakos are stronger than most, but if it's a standard grade 8, you are only talking about 6% difference. Unfortunately, being an engineer has a way of ruining a lot of cool facts like that.

 

[Mhannink]

that is pretty good i didnt know that