CEL again

[WJB1]

2008 2500 4x4

Came out of dealer 195 miles ago, 10000 on truck. CEL back on for the 4th time. The fix was the latest guess. Wraped sensor, drilled out, lots of cleaner as per schooling. The overhead did not tell me a dam thing, same as last times.

They now have the truck 4 days.

I have advised them of the N. Y. lemon law.

Love the truck but not the lies and BS.

Has anyone had problems after the drill out and cleaning?

What happens after we run out of warrenty?? Who will pay, or are we suppose to pony up for a new truck?

 

[DFeldman]

WJB1 I understand your pain. I have had the same question for my dealer who only says they are sure that the issue will be figured out by then. One more turbo issue and I am finding a lawyer.

 

[HBarlow]

2008 2500 4x4

Came out of dealer 195 miles ago, 10000 on truck. CEL back on for the 4th time.

What code is it setting?

 

[RVTRKN]

I went to D/C to ask my tech a few questions about a minor issue on my 6. 7, and he was finishing a turbo replacement on another 6. 7. When I asked him why it failed, he claimed it was sooted up. I asked him about this new drill and clean and he said that Dodge wants the tech's to perform this first, but it will be back in a few thousand miles and need a turbo replacement. He acknowledged the fact it will not work and if I my truck was out of warranty he would only recommend replacement over cleaning.



Now that we know soot is a major issue on 6. 7, and it only seems to be on the 350 HP version. Per my tech and my theory on this problem, it is caused by over fueling (the old fashion smoke out which we can't see any more) on the HO version. I have not heard of nor has my tech changed out a turbo yet on the 305 HP version. I know there will be a lot of arguments on this next statement, but we need to drive these trucks like our grandpa,s would drive them to keep them from smoking (which we can not see now) to keep the soot to a minimum.

 

[jelag]

We now have 38K miles on an 08 5500... . I'm sure that Chrysler will get this taken care of... we've not had a problem... we just drive it like we stole it... . at 19,500 lbs most of the time... .

After several years of owning Fords with their injector and electrical problems this is a cake walk... my cost on our 3500's per mile is much less than the costs of the Fords...

I personally believe there is an underlying problem with the engine they are not dealing with or have not discovered... just like when we had new emission systems on the cars... . we'd burn out the cat because of over fuel problems and they'd get too hot... . the soot is from over fuel... either it stays in the regen cycle to long or at some point over fuels..... wrong fuel mapping... . etc. .

Those of you who have thought about the lemon law only drive up the cost of these trucks for the rest of us... you need to find a tech who knows what he is doing and will solve the problem... .

We currently do all our own repairs and upkeep on our trucks because its actually less expensive in the long run... more costly up front but we seem to never be surprised with out of town problems from someone we took the truck to doing something wrong and it later costing us with a tow bill and out of town repair... .

Because the failure and repair costs were so high on the Fords I bought a flatbed trailer and would actually go get the truck... we found a lot of dealers with a small wiring problem would want to install 3 or 4 injectors to try and fix the truck first.....

Thanks for listening... ...

 

[BHenn]

Dumb question here, but why is soot bad for the turbo? Also, from my reading on this topic in other posts, I have gathered that most of these 6. 7's that are driven hard seem to have less soot issues. It seems those driven gently and babied were having the soot problems. Perhaps either way of driving can cause the same issues? Oh, and think I also read that running 100% of the time with the EB on helps keep the soot in the turbo to a minimum. Hell, I don't know, just applying what I have read based on others experiences. So far I am trouble-free, but only 5k on the truck. I certainly drive on the "grandpa side" of this coin. My only towing is an old military trailer loaded with an ATV and camping/hunting junk. Can't weigh more than 3k fully loaded with gear.



Thanks,

Brent

 

[mberry]

Brent,

Soot gums up the sliding vanes mechanism "thingy" in the turbo, causing it to either fail partially, or fail completely. Either way, it can do serious damage to the engine if it fails and causes EGT's to go too high for too long.

 

[HBarlow]

Adding to MBerry's answer above I think that under a microscope soot is actually hard particles like sand but smaller.



The turbos of the 6. 7 engines use a complicated turbo with variable geometry and very fine tolerances, ie moving parts that change with throttle opening and fueling.



If the soot particles build up in the turbo's sliding mechanism it causes binding and failure.

 

[sag2]

The general process is to clean the turbo first and if it sticks again (P2262) it should be replaced. There are two different Scenarios with the soot. One is soot that stacks up at either end of the sliding vane travel and blocks the VGT from the full boost or full brake position. The second problem is soot sticking somewhere near the middle of the travel as the soot gets trapped between the VGT and the housing causing it to stick. The underlying problem is excessive soot build up. This can be caused by many things, some caused by us, and some inherent to the design of the emissions package.

Possible causes in no particular order are:

Excessive idle

Poor fuel or bio

Not having the latest flash

EGR leaky or stuck

Lack of boost from any reason

Running light causing many regen's

Leaky injector(s)

Not using low ash oil

Not changing the emissions filter in the valve cover

Aftermarket programmers (more fuel=more smoke)

Aftermarket intake (upsets the MAF that controls EGR)



I'm sure I missed some but you get the point. These are complicated packages that rely on many things operating just right to work correctly.

So to get back to the point of the turbo replacement, if it is being replaced for a P2262 the entire system needs to be cleaned of excessive soot at the same time or the chances of a repeat is much higher.

Sometimes the turbo gets loaded with soot as the result of a P2000 code. The P2000 is a good indicator there is something amiss upstream causing excessive soot.

The bottom line is the technician needs to follow the applicable TSB(s) to the letter for an effective repair. Chrysler is paying straight time to make sure they get fixed correctly, so they really are making the extra effort to get the technician to do the repair correctly. These are all very expensive repairs and Chrysler and/or Cummins are stepping up to the plate.

 

[BHenn]

Thanks for the explanations...



Brent

 

[WJB1]

Update

Dealer called to say they were replacing the turbo. Now waiting for the part. The console has never given me a mesage, dealer told this every trip. As far as driving up the price if I use the lemon law, that is to bad. They are driving my cost up. I do not have the luxery of my own garage. If you buy a product that is defective you have a obligation to make them fix it. Otherwise they will continue to steal from you and anyone else who buys the product.

Dodge took one of my trucks back for death wooble. I did this under the Lemon Law, no lawyer. Cost me big bucks. One of our other members just did it with a lawyer, he made out much better.

I am now in touch with a lemon law lawer. This is still a pain in the butt.

I am very afraid of running out of warrenty.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Bill