Cell phone antenna question

[TomGolden]

Howdy all,



Thanks to Barry's recent thread about the Wilson Cellular Truckers antenna, I bought one last week, installed it on the Ram this past weekend. So far, it seems to make zero difference to my reception.



Now to the details. I have a Nokia model 3365 phone. This is a GSM phone. The GSM "cellular" phone network has been in use in Europe for several years, but is just barely getting started in the U. S. , which I knew when I upgraded my phone 4 months ago from a TDMA phone. I have AT&T Wireless service, as AT&T and T Mobile are, I believe, currently the only companies that have GSM service in the U. S. .



Now, before I bought my antenna, I sent emails to the Technical Support folks at Wilson Cellular, and specifically stated my phone model, and that it is a GSM phone. I wanted to know if their antennas do in fact work properly with the GSM protocol, as I personally do not know what frequency range GSM operates on. The responses I got back from Wilson were less than what I had hoped for, basically telling me that they do offer a phone adapter for my model of phone, and nothing at all about their antennas supporting the GSM protocol.



Now one thing I have come to dislike about the Nokia phones, they do NOT have a port for an external antenna. So, the Wilson adapter has to use RF (radio frequency) and close proximity to "connect" the phone to their adapter.



So, I am asking you all if any of you have any type GSM phone, anywhere in the world, U. S. , Europe, Asia, I don't care, and if you have ever used any type of external antenna with a GSM phone, and did it help at all with reception?



I am about to go hunting in northeast Utah, and I really hoped this antenna was going to make a difference in my reception just in case I really need to use the phone out in the hills...



Thanks all,

Tom

 

[mgonske]

Tom,



I ordered the Wilson antenna in response to that thread too, to try to improve reception at my house (the no-ground plane Trucker for my Nokia 8620 (AT&T TDMA)). I see zero difference with it, too.



TDR Member John McIntyre works with ("third gen"?) cellular technology in Europe--he'd definitely be the expert to deal with the GSM questions.



I looked for a new phone that was Blue Tooth compatible with the optional hands-free kit for the 3rd-Gen trucks, and found the only option was a GSM phone, which is not backwards-compatible with PCS/digital/analog if you're outside the GSM area. I'm not willing to give up the better coverage area, so no Blue Tooth for me (yet)--I'm sticking with my AT&T Digital One-Rate.

 

[Barry]

I am sorry you guys are getting less performance than expected. It is always a risk recommending someone or something to other people. I am on At&t one rate and it works great for me.....

 

[skobylenski]

I have a Nokia 5165, and it made a heck of a difference. Most of the time I can get good reception, but in my region (at home that is) there are a few spots where I can get service and noone else can. I guess it all depends on the model phone and the hills blocking the cell towers. Try going into the mountains and see what the difference it. I assume you are getting full service without the antenna? If not, then there's probably something that isn't compatable between your phone and the antenna. Like the packaging says, you will get something like 5-10dB increase, whatever that means. All I know is that mine works REALLY well. I like it a lot.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Page for John Mc

Oh Johnny!



:Edit: I think John may be out on Biz I tried him this A. M

 

[TomGolden]

I live in the Sierra-Nevada foothills between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe, and every cell phone I have ever had, regardless of what type of service, I have never been able to get a signal at my house. Granted, I have not yet driven anywhere of any significant distance since I installed the Wilson antenna, so I can't really say what gain I will get other than at my house.



Next month I will be driving down south through the central valley of CA to pick up my dad before we head to northern Utah, and I could always get a good signal with TDMA phones throughout the valley, but get nothing with my GSM phone. So, I'll see what I get there with the Wilson antenna.



Barry, I hope it didn't sound like I was cranky for following your suggestion. The whole antenna setup was cheap enough that I count it as basically being a zero loss even if the thing never pans out. And thanks for telling us all about the antenna I'm sure it will work great for a fair number of TDR folks at any rate.



Tom

 

[mgonske]

Originally posted by TomGolden

Barry, I hope it didn't sound like I was cranky for following your suggestion.

Tom

Likewise! I'm usually willing to try something new, if only for the sake of learning.



I still don't understand most of what I've observed with this system. The signal level at my house seems to vary randomly from zero to close to full strength, and when I attach the (proximity) antenna coupler, the signal level does not change, although the same variation can be observed over time.



I'm still looking forward to more testing, both at home and in various backcountry places I spend time in.

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by TomGolden
... I have AT&T Wireless service, as AT&T and T Mobile are, I believe, currently the only companies that have GSM service in the U. S. .

...

Now, before I bought my antenna, I sent emails to the Technical Support folks at Wilson Cellular, and specifically stated my phone model, and that it is a GSM phone. ...

Thanks all,
Tom

I believe all US service providers who are currently using IS136 (US-TDMA standard) are dumping that protocol for either CDMA or GSM. USCellular is switching from US-TDMA to CDMA. Cingular and AT&T are switching to GSM, IIRC. VoiceStream (or whatever their name is now) offer GSM in the 1900 MHz band, and their service is very limited.

To answer your support question, the antenna is transparent to the protocol. But you do need to ensure the Wilson antenna will work in both the 800 MHz and the 1900 MHz US bands. If it isn't designed to work at the PCS (1900MHz) frequencies, you may not see any gain, yet you might see a gain at the lower, 800 MHz, frequencies.

When hunting in remote areas, you are most likely going to find yourself in regions with analog service only, which is the old xAMPS in the 800 MHz band. I don't know if any GSM phones have been made that will work on AMPS as well; there weren't any when I quit Motorola Cellular 3 years ago.

For reference, most of the rest of the world uses 900MHz and 1800MHz bands for GSM.

Unfortunately, these answers might not be what you wanted. In all honesty, the best phone to get today is a CDMA phone. Why? Because CDMA is as widely available as GSM and US-TDMA, and CDMA phones are also compatible with the old analog AMPS systems, which are still very prevalent in remote areas.

If GSM phones are now capable of using analog AMPS systems, I will be suitably surprised, as that would be an indication of unprecedented cooperation among service providers.

Neal

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

This may raise a bickering or two, but it has been my experiance... and I know a thing or two about wireless... . that unless a external antenna is "powered" it will not amplify, it will just be what it is... . a longer antenna on the outside of your car. A TDMA phone only produces about 1/4 of a watt, the old bag phones from yesteryear made a TDMA crushing 4 watts, them old ones work everywere nowadays.

 

[TomGolden]

fest3er, thank you for your detailed response. According to their website, the Wilson antenna is designed to provide optimal gain at 800 MHz and 1900MHz, digital and analog signals. I didn't know what frequency GSM used in the U. S. when I bought the antenna. Another thing too, is that my Nokia phone, and I think this is true of most or all Nokia phones sold in the U. S. , they do NOT have a jack or port to connect an external antenna to, so you have to use a proximity connection. This may mnake no difference, I don't honestly know...



Jake, you are absolutely right about the old bag phone of yester-year. But who the heck wants to have to carry a backpack just for your phone



After I get home from my hunting trip next month, I'll post more info then.



Tom

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

Originally posted by TomGolden



But who the heck wants to have to carry a backpack just for your phone

Same people that have a fatty antenna straped to the top of their truck



On a more serious note, the Nokia Car Kit, the one that is hard wired into you car, does actualy boost the signal as well as keep your phone charged, Hands free speakerphone, and a remote handset. This whole kit is hardwired into your car, and has a port replicator that picks up the antenna from the port on the bottom of the phone. An external speaker and antenna are included in the kit also.

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Free beer tomorrow!!





That same rule used to apply to GSM coverage in the USA but I understand that it is changing, albeit slowly



Just picked up my PM from TMTT... been a bit busy of late. BTW Tim, you can email my GSM mobile phone in Europe from your PC!! Oo. That way I get instant notification that you wanted me to chime in, rather than relying on me being logged into the TDR website or checking my personal email.



Couple of things following on from fest3er's contribution. Most GSM handsets, late models, either have a dedicated antenna extension socket on the back, hidden by a rubber plug or depending upon the manufacturer, the same facility is available through the base along with the external power supply pick-up. You have to check the manufacturers' specs to find out which hands-free car kit (cradle) has the external antenna support option rather than relying on the internal cellphone facility.



My own hands-free installation in the truck uses a Nokia 6310i (tri-band GSM 900/1800/1900) and a small internal, reradiating antenna mounted on the dash over on the passenger side by the A-pillar in the corner just below the windshield. The dimensions are about the size of a book of matches and it's a low-profile item, only half an inch thick. Works very well! I also use another one for my GPS satnav system and that works a treat too.



Yes, GSM coverage is becoming bigger in the USA and Canada. Hey are any of you guys signed up with T-Mobile USA by any chance? Have you heard about a new GSM handset/product click Manufacturer's (Danger) link I'd be VERY interested in what the reaction/feedback is like? It has voice, SMS, picture messaging, web browsing, email chat and MMS capability. I don't believe there is a comparable CDMA product?

 

[willyslover]

Tom. .

from the original thread I too purchased a Wilson... however I did the mag mount one about 18" long and small magnet that holds very well at above 80 MPH. .

I had a charger [purchased from Flying J truck stop] that came with an antenna wire [short about 18" long] attached to the phone plug... was for the Motorola flip [newer one don't remember the model]... before antenna VERY poor in my truck. . with the Wilson GREAT !!. . might try Flying J for a charger with antenna lead / all in one as I 'm sure yours will accept the antenna lead in from the power plug. . I believe most do. . been wrong before though

 

[TomGolden]

Thanks for the suggestion Gary, may have to stop in at a Flying J on the way to my dad's place in Barstow next month

 

[The patriot]

I have a Nokia 6340i with a glass mount antenna I installed on the CTD. Made a very noticable difference. This plugs directly into the back of the phone.



My wife has an older Nokia (6120?) and an antenna on her car helped a lot too.

Eric

 

[TImler]

Are you guys mounting the "glass mount" antenna's on tinted windows? I know tint will only affect the signal if it is metallic. All aftermarket tints are metallic but what about the stock tint?

 

[willyslover]

look at the antenna plug in to the charger for compatability . . takes a very small type of internal threaded plug in. . forgot what it called. .

 

[TomGolden]

Ok, I need to put the crack pipe down I guess... I took the back plate off my phone and found it is NOT a model 3365 as the sales person claimed, but a 3595. So, I went to Nokia's web site and found that they do make and sell an external antenna adapter, but it is only listed as part of their Full Car Kit, which includes tons of other junk I don't want or need, and the cheapest I have found it for is $103, doing the Google search.



I email Nokia asking if they would sell the antenna adapter as a separate unit, and asked if it is a proximity adapter, like the one I got with my Wilson antenna, or if it actually physically plugs into the phone... Their response was extremely lousy, basically telling me I should contact a local cellular services company to see what they could do for me.



Makes me start to consider tossing the Nokia and going with someone elses phone that does have external antenna connections.

 

[willyslover]

here is a link to the one I got

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/antennas/wcmagnet.htm

adaptor info below...



Wilson Adapter #

Port Position



232

359904

Bottom Plug



252

359903

Ring



282

359903

Ring



918

353002

Ring



1260

353005

Sleeve



2100 Series (except 2170)

359904

Bottom Plug



2170

353003

Top Screw



3285

359907

Back Plug



3300 Series (3360,3390,3395)

353005

Sleeve



3560

353008

Sleeve



3590

353008

Sleeve



5100, 6100, 7100 Series; 3285, 6300 Series

359907

Back Plug



(Except 5190, 6190, 7190 w/amps models)







5100, 6100, 7100 Series, (Except 5185, 6185

353001

Back Plug



and 5190, 6190,7190 amps models)







6300 Series

359907

Back Plug



8260

353004

Sleeve



8265

353007

Back Plug



8890

353006

Sleeve



Sleve info with pic

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/wcadaptertypes.htm



Sleeve

Snap onto the back of your cellular phone. The sleeve must be mounted to the top of your phone. The sleeve may fit upside down but it will not function properly.



BTW purchased antenna at Battery Outlet $30. 26 inc. tax. 1-800-773-8321 without adapters

www.batteryoutlet.com



disclaimer... not affiliated in any way