ceramic brake pads

[egalley]

Does anyone know who makes ceramic brake pads for an '03 2500? I found one who makes front pads only, but was hoping for front & rear from the same company.

 

[03 H.O. Police]

usually with hi-perf rear brakes, they are not really needed cause it would activate the ABS cause of the no weight in the rear. but EBC makes some very good rears GreenStuff. 61**** series.

 

[jelag]

We've offered a very high end performance friction for police cars..... this is non fade stuff that will work when the rotors glow red... . we don't suggest them for other than this purpose..... in a high speed chase... . you want friction that will work under very high heat braking when they are chasing people and they need to stop... . None of the city's county's that we offer the high end stuff too... . uses this friction on their other vehicles..... and there is a simple reason for this... .



Ceramic friction is really powdered metal technology where a formula of powdered metal is compressed under about 500 tons of pressure..... once this powder is compressed into a puck... . its passes through an oven at a controled temperature in a controlled atmosphere (sp)..... this heats the material until the flux thats part of the mix melts... and the binders... usually bronze or brass melts and flows... . making the puck one piece of metal... .



So what you have is a metal surface, called ceramic... against a metal surface called a rotor... On a truck clutch using ceramic friction... . the wear is about equal. . in other words for every . 001" worn off the friction that amount of metal is worn off the flywheel... . with . 125" of friction you'd have about 1/8" of wear on the rotor... which would make it a scrap rotor with each brake job... .



A truck flywheel has about 3/8" of wear before we throw them away and replace them... . usually in the 800-1000 range... .



So back to ceramic brakes..... most police agencies know that when they move to full ceramic brake, they will replace the rotors with each brake job.....



There are lots of other frictions that will give you ALMOST as good a brake as full ceramic, and won't wear the rotors..... usually 2 brake jobs to 1 set of rotors... .



One last comment... . for it to stop fast, and absorb the energy... that latent energy has to be given off in HEAT and WEAR of the parts around it.....



Hope this helps, and doesn't get me flamed in the process..... but we know a heck of a lot about friction here..... we do it for a living... . and can offer several great books written on the subject... . There are great mechanical formula's that can predict exactly what will happen... .

 

[Buffalo]

jelag,



I've heard of many people just pulling the pads out & replacing them (before metal to metal contact), without refinishing the surface of the rotors.



In your opinion, is this not a good practice or is it OK?



Also, most of my towing, on my "03, 3500 SRW, is in the mountainous Western U. S. with a 7-8000lb. trailer. I have the 6-sp. trans & haven't noticed that I have to really stand on the brake pedal, very much. Do you have any recomendations for brake pads for my situation?



Thanks.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[RankRam]

Joe the best thing you could do is get a PacBrake PRXB on your truck.



The only time you will need to use your service brakes is when you are rolling to a stop.

 

[Buffalo]

Rank Ram,



Yea! I'd love to have one of those! Don't know if I can justify the expense. My trailer doesn't weigh that much & I find that if I slow down at the top of the hills & downshift, I don't have much trouble in maintaining a safe speed, downhill.



I'm not sure if I want to go through life WITHOUT an exhaust brake, though. The PacBrake PRBX is the one that I would really like to have. Heard a lot of good stuff about it.



Since brakes are a wear item, eventually, I'm going to have to replace mine. That's the reason for the info request from jelag.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[RankRam]

Joe you may be surprised at the cost of the PRXB, PM Jelag for the actual cost.



If you were closer I would be glad to help you install it too.

 

[ilovetrains]

We've offered a very high end performance friction for police cars..... this is non fade stuff that will work when the rotors glow red... . we don't suggest them for other than this purpose..... in a high speed chase... . you want friction that will work under very high heat braking when they are chasing people and they need to stop... . None of the city's county's that we offer the high end stuff too... . uses this friction on their other vehicles..... and there is a simple reason for this... .



Ceramic friction is really powdered metal technology where a formula of powdered metal is compressed under about 500 tons of pressure..... once this powder is compressed into a puck... . its passes through an oven at a controled temperature in a controlled atmosphere (sp)..... this heats the material until the flux thats part of the mix melts... and the binders... usually bronze or brass melts and flows... . making the puck one piece of metal... .



So what you have is a metal surface, called ceramic... against a metal surface called a rotor... On a truck clutch using ceramic friction... . the wear is about equal. . in other words for every . 001" worn off the friction that amount of metal is worn off the flywheel... . with . 125" of friction you'd have about 1/8" of wear on the rotor... which would make it a scrap rotor with each brake job... .



A truck flywheel has about 3/8" of wear before we throw them away and replace them... . usually in the 800-1000 range... .



So back to ceramic brakes..... most police agencies know that when they move to full ceramic brake, they will replace the rotors with each brake job.....



There are lots of other frictions that will give you ALMOST as good a brake as full ceramic, and won't wear the rotors..... usually 2 brake jobs to 1 set of rotors... .



One last comment... . for it to stop fast, and absorb the energy... that latent energy has to be given off in HEAT and WEAR of the parts around it.....



Hope this helps, and doesn't get me flamed in the process..... but we know a heck of a lot about friction here..... we do it for a living... . and can offer several great books written on the subject... . There are great mechanical formula's that can predict exactly what will happen... .

Just wanted to add one thing to this... most PP (Police Package) equiped vehicels have an oversized brake rotor. I used to knoe the name of the company as I ordered a set for an Intrepid we had that kept eating front rotors. The rotors are litterally over twice as thick and much heavier than stock. So they start with a larger rotor to begin with, and still melt the darn things.



There is a reason that ceramic brakes are $12-18,000 option on sprts cars!

 

[jelag]

We often replace the pads only..... on our trucks if we haven't gotten into the rotors or we're not have pulse problems with the brake pedal... Pulse problem is when you've overheated the rotors and they are warped...



1 - we open the caliper... . inspect the boots... . if the boots on the caliper are good and not fried... we compress the piston with a c clamp and allow the dirty brake fluid to run into a container.....



2 - we wire brush the metal to metal contact surfaces on the caliper... . and appy a very thin coating of never seize... .



3 - Install the new pads and bleed the system making sure that the brake fluid runs clear once all the air is out... .



We have exhaust brakes on all our trucks... . we just did the brakes on our 04 3500 dually for the frist time at 160K miles... . it now has 206K as of yesterday...



IT pulls a 20-22K lb trailer... . yesterday across the scales the truck and trailer weighed 14,500 KG = 31,900 lbs combined weight... . the truck has never gone through a complete tank of fuel empty... .



We expect customers using an exhaust brake to see 4-6 times the normal mileage between brake jobs when using an exhaust brake... .



Ilovetrains - The last round of Fords we've seen... have had stock calipers and rotors on the patrol cars... we don't have a clue why this is... . like you... we used to see oversized brakes...



One last important fact you all might enjoy... ...



If you take the same friction and put that friction into a bigger circle... in other words, from a 12" rotor or clutch disc to say a 14" that same friction will do more work and last longer because of the radius has increased from 6" to 7"



Hope this helps. .

Jim