2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission change to posi?

[WaynesWorld]

I'm tired of one wheel burn outs. How do I change my L/S to posi?

Is it worth the trouble?

Does it affect fuel mileage?

Would going to a larger tire size help on the stock rims?

So many questions



WAYNES WORLD

 

[Sticks]

Do a search on LSD or differentials. It is possible to re-stack the clutch packs to get more of a positive grip. I think it may take a special tool.

 

[CRSmith]

how to restack lsd clutches

 

[WaynesWorld]

Thanh You for the advice on restacking.

How does this compare to a posi rear?

I have never had a rear end out to repair, can this be done by a novice, or should I turn it over to a pro?

WAYNES WORLD

 

[Stamey]

Generally, changing the carrier, the unit the ring gear rides on, makes it a pro job if you haven't done it before. You need to have a dial indicator, gear marking fluid and a lot of patience to make sure the clearances and patterns are correct. I did it once in a 9 Inch Ford rear and did not have the patience or the knowledge necessary and the gears lasted about 100 miles.



If you have an open rear and are changing to LSD or posi, locker, etc, you will be changing the carrier.



I have been thinking about the Lock Right locker that goes into your open carrier in place of the spider gears. You can use your original carrier and in many cases you don't even have to remove the carrier from the rear to install. I'm hoping that's the case for my Dana 70.

It is a locker, similar to a Detroit, but is supposedly quieter and works as well. I have heard it is better for corners/street use than a Detroit. I haven't tried it yet so I don't know for sure.



Chris

 

[dlange]

I put a lock right in mine about 6 months ago, and I love it. It doesnt quite ratchet around corners like the detroit. But it hooks up excellet.

 

[Stamey]

Originally posted by dlange

I put a lock right in mine about 6 months ago, and I love it. It doesnt quite ratchet around corners like the detroit. But it hooks up excellet.

Great!. Would you mind giving me a "review" of your experience with it? What rear do you have? Did you have to pull the carrier to install it?

I'll be drag racing (launching in 4x4 now) and driving on the street with it.



Thanks,

Chris

 

[CRSmith]

I *think* that if you already have LSD, you have to change to an open carrier to use the lock right or similar since they are designed to replace spider gears. Personally, I wouldn't put a lock right behind the tourque of a diesel. I don't have any evidence to back it up, but they seem like a bandaid locker to me. You could go with one of the lockers that replace the carrier like the Detroit. ARB might replace the carrier too, but I don't know.

 

[dlange]

My installer messed up and told me I couldnt get the detroit. So I went with the next best thing. I asked what was available, and the talked about the lock right. I decided on it, and so far I am happy, I have sled pulled with it about 5 times, and it held together, and it does extremely well in the mud and snow. I guess only time will tell how good of a product it is. I wish I knew I could have got the detroit, I would have. But there is now way I can complain about the lock right as of now. And I would definately recomend it. I hope this helps.





Dave

 

[Stamey]

I emailed Lock Right, or whatever the company is called. They said it would hold whatever I throw at it, until I said I might be getting up to 1500 ft lbs of torque. (wishful thinking?)



I read where one fellow broke his Detroit and they would not honor the warranty. Quote from him: "I have a 1953 CJ3A with a Buick V6 225 odd-fire motor. Not a lot of torque and not a lot of weight - under 2500lbs GVW. "



The story:

http://www.flatfenderltd.com/detroit_locker_myths.htm



He now recommends the Cadillac of lockers, the ARB. Seems like that ARB is awful expensive though.



The reason I don't want to go with a Detroit is that I have heard the Detroit will lock in a corner if you apply power to the drivetrain and that could be problematic, or dangerous, in the rain or snow (not that my truck will ever see snow of course).



And thanks for the info dlange.



Chris

 

[Extreme1]

If you have a LSD, change the fluid and don't add the LSD additive. Odds are that the additive is what's causing the problem of the LSD slipping. Have a bottle on hand because after a couple thousand miles, you will notice the LSD chattering in corners. Add the stuff 1 oz at time until it stops (drive it for a week or so between additions.



My LSD came from a member here who did what you're considering. He removed his LSD, sold it to me, installed a new open diff and a Loc-Rite and is happy. I installed his LSD, didn't add any additive and it lights all four rear tires very nicely.



As for changing the carrier, it's an easy job. Get the carrier bearing shim kit from Dodge (about $60) and a new pair of bearings. A pair of set up bearings would be nice too, see if you can find a set to borrow or try a search. Since the same gears are going back together, you only need to set the backlash and preload (you'll want a FSM for this operation). The pinion depth doesn't change and the backlash and preload are easy set ups to do if you know how to use a dial indicator.



I did mine almost 2 years ago and it's still going strong.



BTW, Posi is short for Positraction, a name trademarked by General Motors. It is a clutch and spring set up like our LSD.

 

[dlange]

Glad to help, good luck on your decision.

 

[rujpn2]

One thing to keep in mind, is if you do a lot of driving in snow/ice/or rain, you will have to "learn" to drive your truck again. The lockers will allow for the rear carrier to release in the turns. However, if the truck is on a slick surface it will slide through the turns. Ihave a Detroit in the rear of my Jeep and a Lockrightr in the front. The short wheelbase does show all of the disadvantages of the lockers easier than long wheelbase vehicles.



There is a locker called the Powertrax. It can be used in vehicles that have a LSD. Bad news is tha the Dana 60 is the largest that they make for to replace a LSD. Their website says one "should" be available for the Dana 70 by now. Here is a link to their site Powertrax . It is a PDF file. Their website is www.powertrax.com



The ARB is a new carrier. It offers the best of both worlds. It is an open diff until you turn it on. Then it has characteristics of a spool. Install is rather high on these, but well worth it if you do a lot of driving in the snow/ice/rain.



greg

 

[WaynesWorld]

change to posi

It seems that the best alturnative is the ARB. How do I get more info on this ?:--)

Who has one in the Chicago area? How much$$$$?



WAYNE WORLD

 

[rujpn2]

ARB info

Their home page is http://www.arbusa.com . For a dealer near you, you can call (206) 264 1669. Or send them an email at sales@arbusa.com .



hth

 

[jmadden]

Don't know about the chicago area but you can get ARB from a lot of places. ARB's are right around $650, plus you need air... the ARB compressor kit is ~$200. Places that might have them:



Randy's Ring & Pinion: http://www.ringpinion.com



OK Auto: http://www.ok4wd.com



Reider Racing: http://www.reiderracing.com



Nat'l Drivetrain: http://www.nationaldrivetrain.com



Off Road Unlimited: http://www.macromotive.com or http://www.4wdstore.com



Also, Eaton is making an electric locker, rather than the air used by ARB. Eaton should be available for D60, D70 is either ready or on the way shortly and same for the D80. Price ~$750



Detroit is also making an electric locker with availability similar to the Eaton from what I've heard. Price ~$750



I've debated changing and have been more inclined to this electric over the ARB's air system.



jm

 

[Gene Heck]

posi or lsd

Hi WW,



A posi is a lsd. "Posi" and "Positraction" are GM trademarks for clutch pack type diffs that were on their option lists in the 60's & 70's cars.



Gene

 

[Uncle Joe]

For a disc type lsd dif,there is a zero$ way to enhance the performance... ... its called plate pinning,basically one takes the plates and clutches out of the carrier, take a pin point prick punch and a hammer,put a whole bunch of punch marks on the plates,then reassemble the whole thing back together,the punch mark will provide a significant traction surface,not recommended to the novice! anybody who changed a clutch on a motorcycle will be at home... .

 

[WaynesWorld]

change to posi

Originally posted by jmadden

Don't know about the chicago area but you can get ARB from a lot of places. ARB's are right around $650, plus you need air... the ARB compressor kit is ~$200. Places that might have them:



Randy's Ring & Pinion: http://www.ringpinion.com



OK Auto: http://www.ok4wd.com



Reider Racing: http://www.reiderracing.com



Nat'l Drivetrain: http://www.nationaldrivetrain.com



Off Road Unlimited: http://www.macromotive.com or http://www.4wdstore.com



Also, Eaton is making an electric locker, rather than the air used by ARB. Eaton should be available for D60, D70 is either ready or on the way shortly and same for the D80. Price ~$750



How do you tell which,electric or air, would be the best? Do these systems have a micro switch to hold them on or a flip/rocker switch to activate? Which system could a novice install?

How do you get updates on these systems?

WAYNES WORLD



Detroit is also making an electric locker with availability similar to the Eaton from what I've heard. Price ~$750



I've debated changing and have been more inclined to this electric over the ARB's air system.



jm

 

[WaynesWorld]

change to posi

Originally posted by Uncle Joe

For a disc type lsd dif,there is a zero$ way to enhance the performance... ... its called plate pinning,basically one takes the plates and clutches out of the carrier, take a pin point prick punch and a hammer,put a whole bunch of punch marks on the plates,then reassemble the whole thing back together,the punch mark will provide a significant traction surface,not recommended to the novice! anybody who changed a clutch on a motorcycle will be at home... .

Uncle Joe,

Would this eliminate my one wheel burn outs? I noticed you don't recommend the novice to attempt this, why? How long will this last? If I remove the carrier, take it to someone, will they think I crazy?

WAYNES WORLD