Changed clutch from CON-OFE to 1947HD. Now have a lot of rattle in neutral clutch out

[Motorhead]

Changed clutch from CON-OFE to 1947HD. Now have a lot of rattle in neutral with the clutch out. Goes away when you push in the clutch. Pedal is smooth.
I called Peter at South Bend Clutch and he said that the HD clutch has been relatively quiet.
What is strange is that it doesn't happen all the time.
I bought the whole new kit with flywheel and hydraulics. The same shop that did the CON-OFE did the HD install. The trans shifts smooth, no noise although I seem to hear more trans noise than I did with the CO-OFE. I also changed the trans oil and there was hardly any metal on the magnet and the oil was clean with 20,000 miles on it. Leaving on a 1200 mile one way trip in 10 days.
I know some have had rattle at idle in neutral and no issues. Any ideas or don't worry about it for now?

 

[Tuesdak]

My 1947HD has also added noise. I can spin down the transmission and let the clutch back out to get a different "sync" on the transmission gears from the engine that appears to reduce the noise. This was both before and after I had Standard Trans rebuild the trans from shot syncros. Drive through windows are the worst, but, sometimes with the windows up at a light I can hear it. I have a Mopar 6.7 fluid type damper on the front of the engine so it's possible that an aftermarket FD may change the noise.

The added weight of the clutch over stock also made cold shifts a bit notchier with the worn syncros esp 3rd before the rebuild.

 

[Motorhead]

Did you go from a stock clutch to the 1947 HD? I see the signature of your truck as a 2003. I am assuming you have the NV5600. I get a pronounced knocking and yes, sometimes I can get it to quiet down by re clutching it. Does yours quiet down when the trans is at temperature? Mine does quiet down a lot.

 

[ranger 393]

I went from stock to the 1947 ok-hd and I have no noise and it is smooth,did the work myself.

 

[Tuesdak]

Did you go from a stock clutch to the 1947 HD? I see the signature of your truck as a 2003. I am assuming you have the NV5600. I get a pronounced knocking and yes, sometimes I can get it to quiet down by re clutching it. Does yours quiet down when the trans is at temperature? Mine does quiet down a lot.

That's interesting that two different transmissions do it.

Yes NV5600 with Amsoil overfill that was still good from the last oil sample. Stock to 1947 and found out the clutches were tore up from a missing dowel pin so I am on the second 1947. Mine is loud at temperature and IMO sounds like gear rattle. Not sure on cold but I don't recall it standing out when cold. I assumed reclutching is the same deal as resyncing the CP3 for gear train noise in front of the engine. Now that a G56 is doing it as well I will have to rethink it being from the clutch. The clutch is a heaver pedal so I do a lot of neutral with the clutch out. But it's loud enough that I find myself reclutching at longer lights esp. after 65 MPH runs, or drive through windows, to quiet it down.

 

[Motorhead]

The G56 being an aluminum case amplifies the noise more than your heavy cast iron case. (Wish the G56 case was cast iron). When you say the first clutch got tore up from a missing dowel pin, do you mean the big dowels that line up the bell housing? Here is what's real weird with mine. The noise, 95% goes away when the trans and clutch are at operating temp.

 

[Tuesdak]

Perhaps quieter, but, it loudly lets me know it doesn't like when I accidentally lug around 1200 and lower RPM. Yeah the dowels that line things up and hold them in alignment apparently. Saga of that mess here:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...e-in-the-clutch-pedal-when-shifting-at-3K-RPM

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...ailure-And-South-bend-clutch-1947-OK-HD-notes

 

[Motorhead]

Called and talked to Peter at SBC. Sure is a great vendor and supplier of clutch parts to deal with! He sent me another disc to try and hopefully I can get it installed Monday before I leave for Casper Wy. this next Thursday. 1200 mile one way and towing my 5th wheel. What is weird that with the clutch in it now (1947HD) I hear neutral gear noise at idle when cold and when the trans is hot, it is quiet. The disc he sent me looks a bit different. I will report back if I can get it changed. The operation and smoothness of the 1947HD is sure nice. Even smooth in reverse!

 

[Tuesdak]

Going to WYO see the solar eclipse? Different color or other difference? My 1st was red and second was unpainted with a blue sticker. (SBC cut me a break on the 2nd clutch as it wasn't their fault it got ruined.) Around 25K on mine and yes it's smooth. The smooth back in to a parking spot on the test drive with the OEM clutch sold me on the truck. It's still that smooth with the 1947HD. Reverse with the 5er gets bunny hoppy . Better after a driveshaft rebuild with a new non-shot center bearing, but, IMO even an auto would hop with this trailer. 4Low would be nice to have. 1st on take off is smooth at near max GCWR.

 

[Motorhead]

Going to WYO see the solar eclipse? Different color or other difference? My 1st was red and second was unpainted with a blue sticker. (SBC cut me a break on the 2nd clutch as it wasn't their fault it got ruined.) Around 25K on mine and yes it's smooth. The smooth back in to a parking spot on the test drive with the OEM clutch sold me on the truck. It's still that smooth with the 1947HD. Reverse with the 5er gets bunny hoppy . Better after a driveshaft rebuild with a new non-shot center bearing, but, IMO even an auto would hop with this trailer. 4Low would be nice to have. 1st on take off is smooth at near max GCWR.

View attachment 99551

Yes, going to see the eclipse and a friend that moved away from Commiefornia. He had had it with the politics in this state. The replacement disc looks just like the one they sent you from the hub perspective. The lining doesn't say Valeo and seems to have a lot of copper stranding in it. Did you notice any less rattle with the disc you pictured from the original disc?
Best thing I did on my truck for reversing with load was the lock out hubs. I can now creep in reverse in 4wd low with the front hubs disconnected, clutch out, backing my fifth wheel.
Thanks for the picture.

 

[Regcabguy]

It does look like Valeo supplies the clutch disc on the OKHD's.
Mine's never been butter smooth as most state. From new when installed it has a slight vibration during engagement.
However,zero neutral noise cold or hot. It's holding EFI Level 1 90hp tune so far. 60hp though is what I normally use.

 

[Motorhead]

It does look like Valeo supplies the clutch disc on the OKHD's.

When I asked Peter about the Valeo linings on the clutch disc, he said he either builds up the hubs or has them built to his specs and they pick the lining from Valeo or others depending on the clutch. Apparently then SBC does the final assembly (riveting)

 

[Tuesdak]

Did you notice any less rattle with the disc you pictured from the original disc?

I really don't recall esp. as I was chasing the clutch pedal vibration and engine knock. I do remember being concerned about the overall noise (nothing specific) and disappointed the trans rebuild didn't quiet it down. Shifts a lot better now. Had the clutch noise you describe for a lot of miles so I am curious as to what you find out if anything. Perhaps mine is ignoble quiet over yours.

 

[Motorhead]

NO MORE RATTLE! SBC sent me a new clutch disc. Unfortunately I needed it in a hurry because I was leaving on my trip. UPS Second day air = $130.00!
The NEW replacement clutch disc had the DAIKIN Clutch company logo and MADE IN JAPAN on the clutch hub. http://www.trademarkia.com/dk-daikin-clutch-76501780.html

The other clutch hub with VALEO lining has no manufacturer name on the metal part.
So my installer pulled my trans again ($500 again) and while the disc, flywheel and P Plate looked pristine with only 600 miles on it, I told the installer to install the replacement DAIKIN disc.
Not a single rattle! I called Peter at SBC and he will take the other no name disc apart and check the springs and look for the issue.
The clutch is absolutely BUTTER smooth. I am currently in Utah pulling my 27ft 5th wheel. My trans has never shifted so smooth now with 92,000 miles on it. I took Regcabguy's (Dave) advice and drained out the Delvac 50wt (Which was a ***** to shift in the winter) and put in 7.5 qts of Amsoil MTG 75/90wt, (Flows thin cold and stays thin). Trans has never shifted so good, especially on the G-56 with the "crunchy" 3rd gear shifts. I highly recommend the Amsoil MTG!

 

[Regcabguy]

Have fun on the trip.
My bud's got hotel reservations he made a year ago for Idaho Falls,Id. The whole extended family's going. They made the reservations a year ago and snuck under the wire. $90/room.
Your spot looks way better.

 

[Motorhead]

Dave, Thanks for the suggestion on the Amsoil. My friend has 4 acres on a plateau and I will have my 5th wheel plugged in and watered next to his shop which is 200ft from the house. Can't wait to see the night skies, thunderstorms, my buddy and his wife and of course the eclipse.

 

[NIsaacs]

If you have a picture of the new disk can you post it when you get time?

So you are on your 3rd clutch/4th disk in 92k miles? Just bad luck or hard to please?

Nick