Archived Changed fuel filter, won't start

[Gordon Maney]

I have a 2001, and just changed the fuel filter in the same fashion I have before. I removed the filter, cleaned the housing, and filled the housing before putting the filter in. Other times I have done this it worked OK. The truck has been running just fine up until now.



Tonight I had changed oil, started the engine to check for leaks, and then did the filter. The odd thing is that it did not even try. No sign of life.



How can I fix this? Thoughts from those with experience in such circumstances would be greatly appreciated.



I have not done the fill the housing with the lift pump procedure I have seen mentioned here. How would I check to see if the lift pump could be the problem?



Do I need to open a bleeder valve somewhere, or loosen fittings? If so, is that something I can do by myself?



In some other threads I read about holding the pedal down and cranking at intervals.



Just asking a number of questions here in hopes that some folks will reply tonight.



Thank you.

 

[Fishin Guide]

Did you crank the motor after it would not immediately start? Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?



I would also check for codes, but you may have to do the procedure below first.



If so, you may have to crack the injector lines.



First, turn the key on and bump the starter. This only takes enough time to hear the starter, it doesn't even need to turn over. You should hear the lift pump running for about 20 or so seconds. Do this 3 or four times. Allowing the pump to quit running before continuing.



After you have done that, try to start it. If it doesn't start right away, you'll need to bleed those lines. So crack about 3 of 'em to the point of being loose. It's best to have a helper here, but crank until fuel is present at the fitting. When you see fuel, tighten that fitting and repeat until all the all lines are wet. If the motor tries to fire, don't let it. Shut off the key and tighten everything first.



Afetr you get the lines tight, get in the truck, give it about half throttle and hold it there. Crank the mototr and let her run. Hold the rpms up until she smooths out and then allow to idle for a bit.

 

[Gordon Maney]

Did you crank the motor after it would not immediately start? Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?



I would also check for codes, but you may have to do the procedure below first.



If so, you may have to crack the injector lines.



First, turn the key on and bump the starter. This only takes enough time to hear the starter, it doesn't even need to turn over. You should hear the lift pump running for about 20 or so seconds. Do this 3 or four times. Allowing the pump to quit running before continuing.



After you have done that, try to start it. If it doesn't start right away, you'll need to bleed those lines. So crack about 3 of 'em to the point of being loose. It's best to have a helper here, but crank until fuel is present at the fitting. When you see fuel, tighten that fitting and repeat until all the all lines are wet. If the motor tries to fire, don't let it. Shut off the key and tighten everything first.



After you get the lines tight, get in the truck, give it about half throttle and hold it there. Crank the motor and let her run. Hold the rpms up until she smoothes out and then allow to idle for a bit.

Yes, I did crank it after it would not immediately start. Was that bad to do? That put more air in my lines/system?



No, I don’t have a fuel pressure gauge.



How do you check for codes, and where do you learn the meaning of a code?



When you mention bumping the starter, are you meaning with the filter cover on or off?

 

[Fishin Guide]

Okay, just bump the starter the way it sits right now, cap on tight. Make sure you hear the pump running.



I have even cracked the injector lines and did the bump the starter thing, but the way I explained it above should get it running.



To check for codes, cycle the key on then off 3 times ending with it in the on position. If you bump the starter, you'll have to start over. Record everything that pops up in the odometer window. And write down everything until the odometer appears again.



The codes are readily available.



Dave

 

[Gordon Maney]

I cycled the lift pump seven or eight times. It still would not start. I can hear the pump running.



The codes are 0500 and 1693. I did find a list of them, 0500 has to do with road speed or wheel sensors, and I admit to not knowing what 1693 means, as the explanation involved acronyms that I do not know.



Are the injector fittings SAE or metric? A 19mm fits pretty tight, but fits. I don't believe I have a flare nut wrench that big.



The number 6 injector fitting looks pretty difficult to access. I am going to try bleeding at the injectors now.

 

[Fishin Guide]

P1693 is nothing to worry about. It just neans it set a code.



the injector lines are 19MM. I would crack 1, 3 & 4. Don't do them all.



Dave

 

[Fishin Guide]

And get those fitting loose, but not falling out. Crank until you see fuel and retighten. It'll start if you get the fuel to it.



Dave

 

[Gordon Maney]

It runs!!!!



I loosened three fittings, as you said. I cycled the lift pump, and also cranked it. I cranked it in approximately three second bursts, perhaps four seconds. I was not sure how long to crank each time, and did not want to lose my batteries. Should I have cranked longer?



I did that five or six times, and saw nothing. The front of the truck is still raised, so I wondered about all of this lift pump business that is discussed so frequently.



A related note, occasionally when I fuel, as I remove the cap, it sounds like air rushes into the tank [unless it is out... . ] So, I removed the cap and it made that sound.



I cranked again, then saw some fuel at the rear most fitting I had loosened. [I am doing this by myself. ] I cranked some more, got more fuel at that line. I tightened the line, then cranked some more, getting fuel at another. I tightened that one. Then I got fuel on the third one and it seemed as though it was trying to start. I tightened that one, then tried starting again.



At that point it did not try to start for three or four seconds and I became depressed hahaha. So I tried again and it tried and stopped, tried and stopped, tried and stopped, and then roared to life.



I thank you so much for guiding me through this, really, thank you.



One question. What did I do wrong, do you think?



Also, are these fuel caps supposed to be vented?



I think I need a different wrench, or something better suited than my 19mm combination wrench. Certain of the injector fittings I may not have been able to loosen, given obstructions.

 

[JKinney]

I had that 500 code once to. Another member explained that he got it after back up and turning the wheels hard in 4 low, Thats what I was doing backing up the fver. It had been cleared, and never came back. The 1693 is a companion that went with it.

 

[Gordon Maney]

I had that 500 code once to. Another member explained that he got it after back up and turning the wheels hard in 4 low, Thats what I was doing backing up the fver. It had been cleared, and never came back. The 1693 is a companion that went with it.

That makes sense, because I used 4 low to drive the truck up on some pieces of bridge plank that I used as low ramps.

 

[nps]

Also, are these fuel caps supposed to be vented?

Yes. You should not create a vacuum in the tank. That may be contributing to your hard start after the filter change.



You should not have to crack the injector lines after changing a filter. The fact that you had to suggests another problem. Maybe your tank vacuum? You should also check your fuel pressure with a gauge to see if your lift pump is bad.



If no gauge, then you can do a volume flow test. Click here for the procedures.

 

[tgrfan2]

It sounds like the lift pump to me too. I had that happen on a 2001 after a filter change. The filter bowl would not fill at all. The truck had stumbled a couple of times under heavy acceleration and I hoped it was the filter. A diesel mechanic friend said he had this happen several times to him also. Luckily the 01 was still under warranty at 75K.

 

[trainhorndodge]

I have to agree it sounds like the lift pump. You deffinately should not have to crack injector lines to start it after fuel filter change. If it doesn't start buy just cycling the lift pump 2 or 3 times and cranking motor with about 1/4 throttle, check flow rate of your pump. Easy way to check is by cracking the drain valve on filter housing while cycling the pump. Time how long it takes to fill up a quart container and do your calculations to figure out how many gph your pump is transfering. Adding low pressure side gauge is also a very good idea to monitor your delivery press.

 

[Gordon Maney]

Just to learn, I have read an enormous number of threads on this lift pump issue, the need to have fuel pressure gauges to know when you are failing, and all the related comment you might expect, including all the various solutions [?] to the problem.



It seems that the solutions are capable of failing; I read about the pusher pump failures, the whole backup scenario, meaning... . leaving the lift pump to be a backup for the pusher pump. ... . and the idea of keeping extra lift pumps in the cab. In some ways the fact that we have concern ourselves with this is pathetic. Perhaps the most reliable solution would be to mount the fuel tank on top of the cab.



What do over the road trucks do to move fuel from a tank to the injection pump? Are their solutions any more reliable?

 

[Fishin Guide]

Just to learn, I have read an enormous number of threads on this lift pump issue, the need to have fuel pressure gauges to know when you are failing, and all the related comment you might expect, including all the various solutions [?] to the problem.



It seems that the solutions are capable of failing; I read about the pusher pump failures, the whole backup scenario, meaning... . leaving the lift pump to be a backup for the pusher pump. ... . and the idea of keeping extra lift pumps in the cab. In some ways the fact that we have concern ourselves with this is pathetic. Perhaps the most reliable solution would be to mount the fuel tank on top of the cab.



What do over the road trucks do to move fuel from a tank to the injection pump? Are their solutions any more reliable?

I am glad you got it running. However, the issue you had is not a clear indicator of a failing or failed lift pump. f the fuel filer was not completely filled and all the air pushed out, this can happen to anyone.



I would recommend getting a permanent gauge mounted in the truck. That way you know for a fact what is going on with pressures. Until then, you are just guessing.



You are correct about many of the lift pump "solutions" failing. Most of those rely on an electric pump and try as they may, they will fail. Some are better than others, but it's a fact of life. The pusher setup works about as well as a FASS or any other electric pump. The RASP is about the best solution out there short of a cam with a 12valve lift pump.



Bottom line is that the factory setup is barely adequate. And increasing line diameter, putting in larger banjo bolts and increasing the pickup tube diameter all serve to remove restriction. The problem is that we are still "lifting" fuel with a pump.



The ultimate solution to me is a heavy duty electric pump that is submerged in the tank. It will fail, but hopefully hold up longer than what is currently available. In the meantime, I'll stick to my mechanical pump that is $50 less than an electric from Cummins NW and I keep the rebuild kit under the seat. It was $8. I should get 100's of thousands of miles out of it.



And many applications use no lift pump at all. So, it's not that it cannot be done. but trying o keep the VP happy and espically cool tends to require som pressure on the nose.



JMHO



Dave

 

[Mad Bomber]

L/p

When my 1st L/P went on the freeway at 60MPH the only way Icould tell was the PSI on the gauge was jumping 14 to 0 and back. As far as differance on freeway preformance none.

 

[B.G. Smith]

As for the pressure/vacuum in the tank, there was a problem insome of trhe trucks where a red cap was left on a open line on top of the fuel tank cartridge assembly. On mine it is a 90 deg. tube about 3/8" in diameter (metric I'm sure) pointed toward the drivers area. You can see the top of the tank if you get under the truck and put your head up between the drive shaft and the exhaust pipe. Also have read stories of dirt-daubers filling the line with mud. Good luck. bg

 

[BOstiguy]

Here's a link for that vent cap possibility. .



http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ISB/low_power.htm

 

[Gordon Maney]

I am glad you got it running. However, the issue you had is not a clear indicator of a failing or failed lift pump. f the fuel filer was not completely filled and all the air pushed out, this can happen to anyone.

I would recommend getting a permanent gauge mounted in the truck. That way you know for a fact what is going on with pressures. Until then, you are just guessing.

You are correct about many of the lift pump "solutions" failing. Most of those rely on an electric pump and try as they may, they will fail. Some are better than others, but it's a fact of life. The pusher setup works about as well as a FASS or any other electric pump. The RASP is about the best solution out there short of a cam with a 12valve lift pump.

Bottom line is that the factory setup is barely adequate. And increasing line diameter, putting in larger banjo bolts and increasing the pickup tube diameter all serve to remove restriction. The problem is that we are still "lifting" fuel with a pump.

The ultimate solution to me is a heavy duty electric pump that is submerged in the tank. It will fail, but hopefully hold up longer than what is currently available. In the meantime, I'll stick to my mechanical pump that is $50 less than an electric from Cummins NW and I keep the rebuild kit under the seat. It was $8. I should get 100's of thousands of miles out of it.

And many applications use no lift pump at all. So, it's not that it cannot be done. but trying o keep the VP happy and espically cool tends to require som pressure on the nose.

JMHO

Dave

What do you mean by a cam with a 12 valve lift pump? Did the 12 valve trucks not have a lift pump? Or are you saying that the 12 valve truck had a cam driven, mechanical pump?

As for gauges, I read here of some using two gauges, one pre filter and one post, with accompanyin diagnostic advantage. If using one filter, are you putting it pre filter or after?

I would like to install gauges, and wish the dash had more geography well suited to that. I am not sure I like the winshield pillar approach, and am tentatively leaning toward the mounts on top of the dash.

Are we surprised that no vendor is offering a heavyduty pump for in-tank mounting? What do you think is the best pusher pump to install back by the tank. Some of what I have read talked about brush failure in pump motors, and certain other posts I read talked of some pumps not being well suited for diesel fuel, at least as per the manufacturer.

The RASP is the belt driven pump? Are those subject to getting snagged from below by something?

 

[Mad Bomber]

What do you mean by a cam with a 12 valve lift pump? Did the 12 valve trucks not have a lift pump? Or are you saying that the 12 valve truck had a cam driven, mechanical pump?





I would like to install gauges, and wish the dash had more geography well suited to that. I am not sure I like the winshield pillar approach, and am tentatively leaning toward the mounts on top of the dash.



QUOTE]



The 12V had a mech pump and Dave put got rid of the 24V LP and put a 12V LP on.

As for the gauges in the dash I put mine into the dash above the radio where the 2 vents were. I'll see if I can find the pic.