changed the oil at 6000 miles boy was it dirty!

[SnoKing]

Highly recommended:

1) Drain overnight
2) Use amsoil for cleaner "looking" oil.

However, i always thought dirty-looking oil was a good thing. Dirty-looking oil occurs when the oil picks up soot and carries it away from engine surface parts (keeping it mostly suspended until the filter does it's job. It is a function of both detergents and dispersants in the additive package. Dispersants have provided a new (actually decades old.... Not new.... But newer additive packages have better dispersants than in the 60's-80's) challenge to filters. Dispersants help particles less than 5 microns to stay small and not clump together so the filter can't filter them out. So i use a bypass filter to (likely) double or triple the effectiveness of my full flow stratopore or Donaldson/Amsoil. However, no filter will get the sub micron particles, so my oil will always look black as it should.

I'm not concerned about soot as long as my UOA stays less than 2%.

Does clean looking oil mean is it NOT holding stuff in suspension? SnoKing

 

[kthaxton]

~All previous statements about what to do about "dirty" oil or incomplete drain of said oil~

OR.........just change your oil per manufacturers recommendations and find something more important to dwell on, like which Christmas songs are now offensive.

 

[AH64ID]

Does clean looking oil mean is it NOT holding stuff in suspension? SnoKing

Pretty much... which begs the question of is it filtered out or sitting somewhere making sludge.

Think back to CF oil... it stayed visibly clean a lot longer, especially with a bypass filter. CF oil was designed when less soot was pushed into the oil with emissions so the soot was allowed to agglomerate more, which made it easier to filter out especially with a 2µ bypass.

Then we had CI which was the first big emissions oil that was designed to keep soot in suspension. Suspended soot is very difficult to filter out as soot particles are sub-micron size. CI was arguably better oil than CF, thou it probably always looked dirtier.

CJ.. well, let's just leave that POS spec alone.

CK oil, now we have an oil that provides protection like CI oil but is more advanced for soot control and emissions related issues. Sure the TBN is lower and the service life might not be quite as long as CI oil, but modern emissions doesn't allow for the CI lifespan.

Good oil that's doing it's job will be darker sooner than oil that isn't, even on older engines without as much emissions junk.

If you want to know how your oil is doing then do a UOA.

My oil is BLACK about 1/3-1/2 way thru the change and soot comes back at 0.1% normally, well below the Cummins limit of 3% for an ISB.

 

[JPM]

Pretty much... which begs the question of is it filtered out or sitting somewhere making sludge.

Think back to CF oil... it stayed visibly clean a lot longer, especially with a bypass filter. CF oil was designed when less soot was pushed into the oil with emissions so the soot was allowed to agglomerate more, which made it easier to filter out especially with a 2µ bypass.

Then we had CI which was the first big emissions oil that was designed to keep soot in suspension. Suspended soot is very difficult to filter out as soot particles are sub-micron size. CI was arguably better oil than CF, thou it probably always looked dirtier.

CJ.. well, let's just leave that POS spec alone.

CK oil, now we have an oil that provides protection like CI oil but is more advanced for soot control and emissions related issues. Sure the TBN is lower and the service life might not be quite as long as CI oil, but modern emissions doesn't allow for the CI lifespan.

Good oil that's doing it's job will be darker sooner than oil that isn't, even on older engines without as much emissions junk.

If you want to know how your oil is doing then do a UOA.

My oil is BLACK about 1/3-1/2 way thru the change and soot comes back at 0.1% normally, well below the Cummins limit of 3% for an ISB.

Thank you for a very informative response

 

[JR]

Having 15,000 mile OCI's is probably a good selling point. But going 15,000 miles between oil changes just protects FCA up to the 100,000 mile power train warranty and the 120k Max cares.



But the oil will protect better if changed on shorter intervals.

Its not a selling point. Cummins uses The same intervals across the board wether it be a pick up or a crane or a pay loader - 15k miles/500 hours. That's very standard across manufacturers and I'd bet money the next gen emissions will allow them to go even longer.

Here's my recent sample, just shy of 13k miles on regular old $7 per gallon conventional oil. I only took the sample because the rep was going to be at my cousin's farm and they nearly half as much going through him than ordering them through the mail. This oil will see 15k miles before it gets dumped.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/dzi83m3ftm6fypz/112818_1807.pdf?dl=0



When they're used the way they were designed - for work - there is no issue with the service intervals.

 

[JR]

One error I should point out, they have my makeup oil at 1 quart. I filled the sheet out on memory but once I got home and looked at my notes it was only a half quart. Meaningless as far as the analysis goes but should be considered when comparing the earlier analysis.

 

[Cummins12V98]

GS, YES they have suggested 16-17k changes after my warranty is up.

 

[cricha]

I've got a 17 3500TD 4X4 Aisin. Oil is black right after I've changed it. I use Rotella syn. Samples of the first four oil changes at 6000 to 9000 miles sent to blackstone. Blackstone said the oil was absolutely fine. TAN numbers were excellent. I'm told the DPF filter causes more soot in the oil. I don't know if that is true or not.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I've got a 17 3500TD 4X4 Aisin. Oil is black right after I've changed it. I use Rotella syn. Samples of the first four oil changes at 6000 to 9000 miles sent to blackstone. Blackstone said the oil was absolutely fine. TAN numbers were excellent. I'm told the DPF filter causes more soot in the oil. I don't know if that is true or not.

Post your last report.

 

[Newsa]

I've got a 17 3500TD 4X4 Aisin. Oil is black right after I've changed it. I use Rotella syn. Samples of the first four oil changes at 6000 to 9000 miles sent to blackstone. Blackstone said the oil was absolutely fine. TAN numbers were excellent. I'm told the DPF filter causes more soot in the oil. I don't know if that is true or not.

Maybe they meant EGR?

 

[ram17]

I don't believe that there are any articles or studies that correlate damage to engine/turbo components based upon the variable of the "blackness" of the oil. IMO oil analysis is the gold standard in determining if there is a problem or not.

 

[ddivinia]

If anybody is curious here is a the first oil sample analysis on my 2017 Ram 3500. Always an interesting read.

D.