Changing to synthetic Power Steering Fluid

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

In a couple threads recently, some guys mentioned replacing the power steering fluid with synthetic ATF. I am about to place an order with Amsoil. Which ATF should I order? The Universal ATF (Fluid to -72F) or the Powershift ATF? How many quarts would I need to fully flush the system?

When flushing out the original fluid, what is the best method? Is it hard to remove the return line, and is it hard to identify? If I could stick that in a container and do a quick start to pump most the old stuff out, then fill the reservoir and do that a couple more times it should do the trick. Any better ideas?

Thanks in advance

Vaughn

 

[illflem]

Vaughin,the method you describe is the one I've used before,though never on my Cummins,not sure of access to the return line. It's also good to turn the steering wheel back and forth to drain the cylinder and hoses.
Looked in my '95 manual for the capacity,didn't find it but found this;

WARNING!Do not use automatic transmission fluid in the pump reservoir,damage to your vehicle will result.

But of course Dodge would say that along with use only Mopar... It's up to you

 

[Glen Pratt]

Vaughn, Red-Line makes synthetic power steering fluid. I use it in my truck. Steering is a whole lot easier. I replaced mine when I replaced the pitman shaft seal on my steering box. I removed the pitman arm, remove the clip from the steering shaft, and turned the wheel from side to side to blow out the seal and of course the fluid. You could probably use a turkey baster to suck the fluid out of the pump. -Glen

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1998 12 valve 2500 Quad Cab, A/T, 4. 10, Deep Amethyst, 4. 5" Skyjacker Double Flex lift kit, 36. 0"x14. 5"x16. 5" TSL Super Swamper radials on 16. 5"x9. 75" Weld Typhoons, Speedliner spray in liner, Raven high rise cap, J&J stainless steel Nerf-N-Steps, 4" Jardine exhaust, 370 HP Diamond B Injectors,JRE #3 plate, DTT VB & converter

 

[amsoilman]

Vaughn,
Either of the Amsoil ATF will do. They are not making the +4 only fluid anymore, but they do offer the "universal" ATF which covers the +4 specs.

Wayne

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I wonder what D/C thinks ATF would do to the PS system? Many many vehicles over the years have used ATF for power steering fluid, until they probably figured out they could bottle it up as "P/S fluid" and quadruple the price. It would be interesting to know what "PS FLuid" consists of in terms of viscosity, additives, detergents, etc.

The only thing I can think of with using synthetic ATF is potential seal problems, which I doubt would be an issue. I would think quality synthetic ATF would have better lubricative properties (slipperier) and viscosity stability compared to the "PS Fluid" D/C puts in there.

Vaughn

 

[Shelby Griggs]

OK, I got to ask. Are you guys flushing the PS fluid as regular maintenance? Also, what benefits are you hoping to see out of the synthetic, be it ATF or a PS specific fluid? Probably shouldn't confess to something like I am about to, but here goes. My GM car (Grand Am) is 11 years old and has 208,000 miles on it. I have NEVER changed the fluid, nor has it ever had one drop added in all that time. Am I lucky, dumb, or what? Why all the fuss about changing out PS fluid on essentially brand new trucks? What am I not understanding?

Shelby

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2001. 5 2500 QC LB 4WD, ETH, DEE, 3. 54 gears, Laramie SLT, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Travel Convenience Group, Power Driver Seat, Alarm System, Remote Keyless Entry, Fog Lamps, Cab Clearance Lamps, HD Transfer Case, Bright White with a Gray Interior. Built 09-15-00, took delivery on 10-06-00, 1749 miles as of 11-25-00. Custom aluminum work body / flat bed. Coming soon: E-Brake and gauges.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Surveyor, synthetic ATF flows better in cold weather, and I've seen several posts about noisy PS pumps in cold weather and want to take measures to reduce stress on the system. With the way this winter is going it is looking like cold weather is sticking around for awhile!

As a part of routine maintenance I don't think you need to flush the system out too often. maybe once every couple of years or 50K miles or something. Maybe make it last 400,000 miles instead of 200,000 type thing?

I don't know if flushing the PS fluid is beneficial, but flushing the brake fluid is a very good thing to do! Especially people in moist climates. I have done too many brake jobs and seen what happens when the fluid isn't refreshed once in a while. At 25K miles I plan to flush through about 50% of the volume so that moisture buildup is kept down.

Vaughn

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Thanks Vaughn. I haven't seemed to have any trouble with mine this winter, and it has been below freezing a lot. Maybe something I should think about doing, living in a colder climate. Looks like the ATF Vs. PS fluid debate is still on going. I know a lot of older cars specified that ATF was OK, but it seems the newer rigs indicate that a special PS fluid is needed. I guess one needs to have a definitive answer on the correct fluid or acceptable substitutes before changing it out.

Shelby

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2001. 5 2500 QC LB 4WD, ETH, DEE, 3. 54 gears, Laramie SLT, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Travel Convenience Group, Power Driver Seat, Alarm System, Remote Keyless Entry, Fog Lamps, Cab Clearance Lamps, HD Transfer Case, Bright White with a Gray Interior. Built 09-15-00, took delivery on 10-06-00, 1749 miles as of 11-25-00. Custom aluminum work body / flat bed. Coming soon: E-Brake and gauges.

 

[illflem]

Shelby,I also have never had problems with PS fluid,my '82 Toyota 300,000 mile beater PU has never been changed nor had a drop added. I had to buy some PS fluid for my daughter's Accord after changing out the engine,auto parts guy told me that Hondas were the only rig that he knew of that absolutely required OEM fluid for no damage. If you plug your truck in when cold you won't have a problem with a squealing PS pump,which syn fluid is supposed to alleviate.

 

[Fred Swanson]

Vaughn, if you really want to improve your P/S overall, try a tractor fluid called Hytrans, I believe it is made by CASE. We use this in our Rock Buggy's for twisting in the rocks, and it is heavier than ATF or P/S fluid, but doesn't heat up near as bad, and it won't leak through seals like the lighter fluids.
I can get the exact name if you want, you can pick it up at any Implement dealer. It runs about $8 a gallon. No it is not synthetic, but it is superior to ATF or P/S fluid. And we use it on standard and hydraulic steering systems.
It is made for BIG tractor sumps, that typically hold 30 gallons or so.

Fred
Canyon State Components, LLC http://www.canyonstatecomponents.com

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CSCPusher
'00 QC,SB,4x4,Auto,3. 54 w/LSD,Trailer Package, Tow Package, SLT, 265's, Isspro Boost,Pyro,transmission Temp in 3-gauge A-pillar POD

 

[Cooker]

Vaughn, funny you posted this because I was thinking the exact same thing.

I just sent an email to an Kevin at LE on this topic, here is a quote from his reply, "For power steering fluid, I recommend the regular fluid at the auto parts store. LE does not carry such a fluid. It is basically a Hyd fluid with good anti-foaming additive. "

Given this, the CASE Hydralic fluid is not a good idea, and I wouldn't think that ATF is a good idea either because LE makes an ATF.

I think I'm gonna try the Valvoline.

Ryan

 

[AlK]

In 1998 I had the P/S Gear box replaced by a shop that specializes in steering boxes and they use Automatic Transmission Fluid Type "F".

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92-LE,4x4,5spd,3. 54,Borgeson steering shaft, Tach,Isspro Pyro & Boost, 16cm2, PW injectors

 

[illflem]

Vaughn,my manual also said that many fluids are not compatible with the rubber hoses,use only Mopar... Wonder why they didn't warn that the return line hose isn't compatible with diesel fuel. Sny oil is a whole different animal,seems like lots of folks have been using it with no problems.

 

[Mad Max]

In my experiences with Redline products, used in racing and my current vehicles, the powersteering fluid lasts about a year for the type of street usage I see and about the same in my old autocrossers?

It quieted things down and I didn't have any pspump promblems w/ my old 1LE. I run the Valvoline SynPower Steering Fluid in the ETH and I'm blending it out of the wife's rig. I want to see if maybe Val's stuff will last a little longer?

As for ATF, never tried it, but I reckon K. D. may have some insight for ya.

Good Luck

Max

 

[1tuffram]

Originally posted by amsoilman:
Vaughn,
Either of the Amsoil ATF will do. They are not making the +4 only fluid anymore, but they do offer the "universal" ATF which covers the +4 specs.

Wayne

I have heard of using the Amsoil ATF, bu talso read all the caution stuff Chrysler says about using only Mopar. I contacted Amsoil tech support and they said not to use ATF because Chrysler did not recommend ATF. Does this apply to ATF in general or just mineral base ATF and synthetic is OK?

What is the real scoop with using synthetic ATF in the power steering?? Will it cause the pump to fail, seals and/or hoses to leak. I have been wanting to put some type of synthetic in the PS for awhile. I would prefer to use Amsoil since everything else in the truck is Amsoil.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well thank you everyone for your input. I have decided to not do anything and not try to solve a problem that really doesn't exist. My P/S pump hasn't made a bit of noise, but then it hasn't been that cold in this part of the north like much of the country, coldest nights this season haven't dipped much below 20F.

Vaughn

 

[Sled Puller]

Quote from AmsoilTech:
. "To clarify the power steering question, the answer is that Chrysler does not recommend ATF for this use. People have used our ATF in Chrysler power steering systems successfully, but our ATF has not been tested and certified for this use. "

I have had it in for two years, no problems.
Gene

 

[Fred Swanson]

Sorry, I'll have to disagree that the CASE hytrans hydraulic fluid is not recommended. It is safe on the seals, and although it is heavier, it perfroms much better than conventional P/S fluids for cold and hot extremes. Anti-foaming!, much better qualities than conventional fluids. I have personally used it, and know several others we have recommended it to, and no failures, leaks or problems whatsoever. In fact, I have seen it cure leak prone applications, where the original fluids were too thin, and being pressurized out past the seals. Bad seals? Not on new equipment being put under severe stress conditions, like we do here in the desert.

Take all input, and you make your own decision Vaughn.

Fred

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CSCPusher
'00 QC,SB,4x4,Auto,3. 54 w/LSD,Trailer Package, Tow Package, SLT, 265's, Isspro Boost,Pyro,transmission Temp in 3-gauge A-pillar POD

 

[illflem]

Fred,I agree with you that Hytrans is good and will work great in the PS. I used to buy it in 55ga drums for my tractors,wouldn't hesitate to use it in my Dodge PS. Long ago switched to Chevron 1000 THF,meets all,Case,Cat,JD,IH etc requirements for hyd. fuild,but at one half the price. Think about the smallest amount of Hytrans or THF you can buy is 5 gallons,bit of an overkill for our little PS pumps.

 

[Fred Swanson]

Illflem, where are you buying the Chevron fluid at? I'd like to try it out. 5 gallons wouldn't be a problem for me. As many rigs as we run it in, this would be perfect. If it is cheaper and does as good or better, I'd like to find out.

Fred
Canyon State Components, LLC


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CSCPusher
'00 QC,SB,4x4,Auto,3. 54 w/LSD,Trailer Package, Tow Package, SLT, 265's, Isspro Boost,Pyro,transmission Temp in 3-gauge A-pillar POD