Charging system woes.

[NuttyMopar]

Jones, sorry too hear that you are having problems with the electrical side of things. I don't think I can but I do want to thank you for giving me a laugh about. "Do I set fire to it or push it out into the street first?" I know how frustrating something can be at times and I have thought the exact same thing also. So thanks. Good luck

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Scott
92 Ram, Bright White, Club Cab, LE package, 4x4, 130K, 3. 54 gears, Auto, Extra transmission Cooler, 285x75x16 Cooper Discovery A/T, 16X10 American Racing rims, RS9000, Tekonsha, Running boards, Lund Sunvisor & bug shield, Marker lights, Tonneau cover, Full cap, DynoMax, 5" Chrome tip, 16 cm Turbo, Isspro Boost, 23 lbs Boost empty, Oil Pressure Gauge, Pump Adj, Sprayed in Bed-liner, Rubber mat

'SHAKES, RATTLES & GOES'

 

[Lil' Dog]

Been there and still there. Just recently changed alternators and now re-locating the voltage regulator. As CrewCab said, clean all the connections including the battery posts. The ground cable on mine was rotted on the inside and made the charge system do very funny things.

The change out of the alternator helped out in the waving needle department, I think as the alternator goes on in years it doesn't like the huge amp draw at low RPM from the pre-heaters. The needle seems to only waver a little at idle and is very steady at speeds above 900 regardless of the draw. My old alternator had 8000 hours on it.

J-eh

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Jason Hoffman
Lil' Mack - 89 D250LE 5 Spd 3. 54 LSD Reg Cab. K&N,"tweaked pump", BD Injectors, Banks Pyro/Boost, 3. 5" Exst tail section straight. E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4, PIAA 80W/80W HdLites. 100W Drv,55W Fogs.
237,500 miles (380,000 Kms) 7850 Hrs. Cummins Power Booster member.
The Original Turbo Diesel

Lil' Mack Pics 07-00

 

[wrk2mtch]

My truck has the same problem. My volt gauge will bounce all over the place at idle but usually smoothes out at freeway speeds. I haven't had time to really get into it yet though.

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'90 LE W250, 727, 3. 07, Line-X bedliner, 140k miles,

 

[Jones]

Hey Guys,
I appreciate the ideas but I've pretty much tried them all. Battery is fresh, wiring harness is out of '89 w/diesel and when I did the conversion I even un-loomed it to look for breaks or bad splices, found nothing. Main battery cables are fresh and all the grounds have been checked and cleaned. Different alts and regs change the rate of amp gauge flutter but it never goes away. Took it to the Dodge dealer and their response was, "Wow, we've never seen one do that before". Really builds a follow's confidence. Think I'll push out into the street first... . Got marshmallows?
Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.

 

[Lil' Dog]

Blowin it up sounds like a little extreme, but I can sympathize. #ad


There has got to be a problem between the voltage sensing circuit and the field being generated in the alternator. Now if you measure the voltage at the two pins on the end of the alternator what does the voltage do?
The voltage regulator is over compensating for the battery voltage drop from the usual draw so the regulator is somehow not accurately getting the battery voltage or the field in the alternator is not reacting properly.
Another try would be to run a ground wire to the voltage regulator from the battery, small of course. Then to test the Green wire I believe that senses the battery voltage in the plug on the regulator. (I will have to go look at mine for the right colour. ) Anyway the voltage should be what the battery is around 11. 5 to 12 sitting flat. The blue one goes to the alternator generating field... Before I can say anything more for sure I will have to test my system to make sure I don't load you up on BS. Testing will commence tonight.

I'll get back to you. . This is a tough one.

J-eh

 

[Jones]

Well I've just changed out the alt & reg for the fifth time and still the amp gauge waves like a windshield wiper, full sweep D to C. I've checked wiring harnesses, put so many ground straps on the thing you could probably pull the engine using them for slings. Probably feel better about it later but right now the only choice I'm wrestling with is, "Do I set fire to it or push it out into the street first?" Anybody got any ideas on this? Doesn't matter if its hot or cold, first start-up or been driven 40 or 50 miles.
... ... ..... help, gasp... .
Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Jones,
This is most likely a stupid question but did you check the main hot wire from the alt. to the battery for shorts ? What are you using for a wiring harness ? Also have you tried changing your battery ? I have seen a battery that had a couple of cells shorting out and doing the same thing. Also are there any thing turned on when this happens ? Get back to me and i will see if I can help. Kyle

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1985 DODGE 1 ton Crew Cab(imported from California with no rust) W/8' box converted to 4X4 in 1999. Converted to a non-intercooled 1991 Cummins Turbo diesel & rebuilt 5 speed Getrag in 2001(wife can't drive a stick . Freshly rebuilt and Balanced Cummins, Rebuilt NP205, Rebuilt Injector pump and tweaked, Matched Injectors, 3" New Mandrel Bent Exhaust,no muffler, Borgeson Steering Shaft, K&N Air Filter, 4:10 gears, limited slip rear end, 16" Goodyear GSA Wranglers, 16K Reese 5th Wheel Hitch,and LE Package and a Sony CD Stereo. Next add-on some “Banks” toys ! If you want to know why I did all of this, 2 kids, one on the way and I can't stand F**d and Ch**y. Kyle Hoover ,Fruitport, MI.

 

[Lil' Dog]

Well first of all you found out that I called the wires in reverse color. . OOps #ad


The green wire with the voltage oscellation is going to the field in the alternator telling it to load an unload as it bursts to 14 and drops to 4. So the alternator seems to be doing as its told. The source of the regulator power on the blue wire is the one I am curious about. That is also going through an ignition circuit, cause in mine if I turn the key to just before off, the alternator shuts down(my tach quits) and the engine runs. Now I have to search some wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual to see where that source comes from. Maybe this is the source of the bad voltage sensing by the regulator. Still diggin. I will still have to test mine as I couldn't get it done last night.

J-eh

 

[Jones]

Hey Lil'Dog,
I did as you suggested and here's the voltage readings I got off the back of my alt:
Main bat lead, 14+ not running, 14-15+ running. Blue and green 0 not running, Blue, 13-14+ running, green 4-14+ running. This is taken with a digital VOM. The green test just keeps scrolling up and down through the range. After it had warmed up it narrowed down to about a 9+ to 14+ range. I'm not sure what this is telling me but maybe it'll give you a clue as to what I've got. When I got the original '89 that became the donor I went in and sanitized the wiring as far as getting rid of add-on lights, trailer brakes and tried to make sure I was getting it back to a stock configuration. I don't think I missed something because I followed the wiring diagrams and went to the trouble of un-looming every thing to make sure I got it all. Not saying I couldn't have overlooked something though.
Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.

 

[Jones]

Hey Lil' Dog,
Both the blue and green come off the acc feed, according to my wiring diagram the only difference is that one goes direct to the alt and the other one takes a trip through the reg before it ends up at the alt.
I had a bright idea (one of few) and that is to disconnect the main from bat to alt at each end and jumper the two with a bridge wire. I'm wondering if I don't have some weird gauss field going on in the harness that's giving ghost signals to the field leads. I'm only considering this because my search for gremlins was unsuccessful.
Later, Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.

 

[Lil' Dog]

A Gaussing problem, good idea. That must be whats happening. The alternator should be able to run on any bench or where ever with just the regulator and a lead to the battery. So there must be a wayward signal in the harness. Now its filtering out that signal, Capacitor??, Resistor bank??? And where to put it, at the regulator or at the alternator.
This is truely an electronics prob that need some expertise, Any electronics majors out there????

J-eh

 

[Jones]

Hey Lil'Dog,
I tried running a lead wire direct from the hot term. of the alt to the batt laid it across the core support well away from the harness. Disconnected the feed I had just bridged at both ends so no chance for spurious signals. No change. I'm gonna take a reading again on the green lead and check it on both sides. Thats the one that had about a 10 volt spread. I've thought about condensers or something to dampen things out but I keep coming back to "find the root of the problem and fix that" so I don't have to put in a bunch of crutches.
Thanks, Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.

 

[Lil' Dog]

Well, done some reading in some manuals but nothing new to report. I'm gonna try to get the wiring diagrams from the library, maybe that'll help... #ad


J-eh

 

[Jones]

Hey Lil'Dog,
Don't know if I mentioned it but theres a couple of details that may or may not matter.
First, the amp gauge needle doesn't wave erratically, its real regular, almost like watching a pulse. When I show people the problem they will without fail, look to see if the flashers are on, it about that steady and about that rate. Second, it only does it when the engine is running. If I turn the key to run but don't start it, the amp gauge shows a slight discharge, about what you would expect from the fuel solenoid, lights on and it shows a little more but rock steady, start it up though and it waves like crazy. Its got me baffled, side note to Bob. Out looking for a relay like you suggested, let you know if anything changes.
Jones

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Jones
'84 Ramcharger w/CTD, non-gated 12, torqflite, NP205, Dana 60 and 70 w/ 3. 07s. Straight piped 3" to x-member 4" the rest of the way.