Check Engine light again-Guess what

[Flys4Food]

Hey Guys... thought I would jump in and get some insight from the Factory guys also.

My '08 just turned 26,000 miles... I live in the country and drive the highway to and from work. Truck idles a minimum amount of time. I work it pretty hard pulling a 12,000 lb. gooseneck horse trailer almost every weekend. Sooooo, last week I get a light, while pulling the trailer at highway speeds, take it to the dealer, and... . needs O2 sensors, turbo and EGR cleaned. So what does my future hold from here. From the way I see it the truck will be at 100,000 miles in a little over three years. OUCH! BTW... it is completely stock!

 

[Flys4Food]

Also... it got the "new flash"



Thanks



greg

 

[sag2]

Also... it got the "new flash"



Thanks



greg

If you were on the original flash, the new flash should clean things up.

 

[1Nebel0]

Next code will be you need a new turbo. . the cleaning lasted 500 miles on mine... they ordered the wrong turbo as truck has been in the dealer's shop for a week. . supposed to get it tomorrow and plan on having discussion with tech... replacing turbo's is fine for now but when you hit the 100,000 miles on in my case it will be five years it will be on YOU... .

 

[Flys4Food]

Great! How many miles are on your truck now? Do you know if a lot of these trucks have gone back to Chrysler under the Lemon Law? A couple of more codes and I will be looking into that, I don't want to be left holding the bag at 100,000 miles. I bought a diesel for the towing ability and also longevity... . doesn't look like it will make the second one. Does anyone know if they are having these problems with the Duramax and International?

 

[HBarlow]

My '08 C&C has just under 60k troublefree miles. EB, a TDR member and former oilfield hotshot hauler has something like 230k on his '07 C&C, also troublefree except that he had to buy a replacement DPF last year. They are a replacement item.

I've only heard of a small number of buybacks.

Ferd has incurred thousands of buybacks and hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue due to warranty claims not to mention a loss of market share due to the sorry Sick. Ohh engines and, to a lesser degree, the 6. 4. Their failures resulted in hundred million dollar lawsuits between Ferd and Navistar and cancellation of the long relationship between Ferd and Navistar. Ferd will introduce a completely new in-house designed Ferd V8 diesel next year or late this year which will have to meet the all new 2010 emissions regulations.

GM/Isuzu has had their own warranty issues with the Isuzu V8 diesel but nowhere near as serious as Ferd.

It is important to consider this: The Cummins ISB6. 7 introduced in 2007 DOES MEET the 2010 federal emission standards. The pickup truck applications have experienced some problems which are/have been slowly worked out.

Ferd and GM have not previously met 2010 emission requirements. Their engines are required to meet them with next year's products. It could be a disaster for both Ferd and Government Motors.

The Dodge Ram/Cummins ISB6. 7 has not been perfect but most are trouble free and providing excellent service. Standby for the fun to begin at Ferd and GM.

 

[sag2]

Great! How many miles are on your truck now? Do you know if a lot of these trucks have gone back to Chrysler under the Lemon Law? A couple of more codes and I will be looking into that, I don't want to be left holding the bag at 100,000 miles. I bought a diesel for the towing ability and also longevity... . doesn't look like it will make the second one. Does anyone know if they are having these problems with the Duramax and International?

As a percentage of those sold, very few have gone back. At this point with the most current flash levels, if you tried to lemon law it you are just going to get another truck with essentially the same hardware and software that is out there now. I don't think anyone with repair history is going to be left holding the bag, but that is just my opinion based on what I see being covered today.

 

[HBarlow]

I e-mailed TDR editor Robert Patton today to ask him if he would include a two part question for his "Cummins Column" next time he talks with Cummins engineers. My question was has Cummins, Inc. determined if the soot issues are caused only by owner drive cycles or could they be also, in part, caused my fuel quality issues or variances in some regions around the country?

I think Robert is currently deep into a TDR magazine publishing schedule requirement but I got a reply back from Robert via Robin.

His answer is that Cummins, Inc. engineers are convinced the few sooting problems are now caused only by owner drive cycle, not fuel issues. The guidance has been and remains, "put the truck to work. "

The engine was designed for use in medium duty trucks hauling or towing heavy loads. The ISB6. 7 needs to be worked in order to minimize soot accumulation. The turbocharger needs to be "flexed" from full throttle acceleration to fully closed exhaust braking and the engine must be worked under load. Trucks used as commuter vehicles are most likely to encounter soot problems.

I cannot prove or disprove the theories or conclusions of Cummins engineers but I do have confidence in them to get it right. My truck occasionally pulls a 14,000# trailer and has been troublefree. My truck has also had the most recent computer flash update.

 

[Flys4Food]

Well... I think my truck might be the one to disprove his theory. As I said in my original post... it pulls a 13000 lb. horse trailer every weekend and the highway every day. Very very seldom does it idle more than a minute. When I drive it unloaded it is driven with a heavy foot! AND... I got the original light while I was pulling the gooseneck at highway speeds (70 mph) and had been pulling for about three hours.

I don't see how I can work the truck much harder than that.

 

[1Nebel0]

Flys4Food... I agree with your response. . Talked to the dealer today and truck is supposed to be done tomorrow... Dealer said they are seeing fewer problems after the turbo replacement but he feels the engineers are still working it out... I feel that many people have purchased this truck without anyone telling them they can't drive it to the local store... I have the Edge system and it sucks when the regen comes on for me on the boat ramp... then it comes on again when I pick the boat up and shuts down when put in park. . it then comes on again and of course I am in a situation where I cannot drive it with enough rpm's to get the egt's up. Of course this doesn't happen many times but there have been to many times that the regen alert on the Edge comes on one block from home. . What do I do, turn around and get on the freeway for 15 minutes... Without the Edge or similar system, the average Joe has no idea when the vehicle is in Regen mode. A very poor design!!!!!!Why didn't they program that into the overhead???? They have forced all of us that want to know to add after market things. Pretty weak that a vehicle that will be used for towing doesn't even come with a transmission temp guage from the factory... These are the things that burn me when you pay so much for a truck... As it has been stated on many posts here, if you don't drive the **** out of the truck, or use it to pull heavy loads you will clog the EGR and Turbo systems... This is not right for the consumer to bear the costs of a system that was not ready to come to market.

I have read hundreds of posts on this site which is a great site to learn. . changing oil in 1500 miles because of sooting is another example of the poor design... Sure wouldn't want to go the mileage my neighbors are going on their oil changes. . I am very anal about service intervals etc and that is why I bought the Edge Juice... not to add more power as the truck has plenty of power. I wanted to know when Regen was taking place, wanted to see transmission temp, turbo boost and egt. . all important functions guys with stock trucks have no idea what the truck is doing... Harvey, while you have had good luck with your truck, look at the countless posts about people with the same sooting problem and turbo's being replaced... yes, they are probably like me not driving the **** out of the truck but nobody ever told me this when I bought it..... Just my 2 cents

 

[HBarlow]

I don't blame you guys for being angry and disappointed with CELs and repeat dealer visits. I feel sad when I read an occasional post by someone who is angry and frustrated with his truck. Fly4Food's drive cycle should prevent that occuring from what we have learned.

In fairness to the truck and engine the numbers or percentages of those who report problems are still very small as a percentage of the trucks sold and operating but when it is your truck 100% of the ones you own are causing owner grief.

I wish I knew something more than "drive it hard or harder" as a suggestion.

When Ferd and Government Motors introduce their new 2010 compliant diesel engines in a few months I think Cummins ISB6. 7 owners who have had problems will begin to feel better.

 

[WRStrong]

Well, I'm considering myself lucky so far but still holding my breath too. My 07 6. 7 has given me 28,000 miles of trouble free service so far. I have had a few CELs come on but dealer visits took care of them... to date. The last issue was reported as a sooted up exhaust pressure sensor. ?? I don't know. After the last visit to the dealer (which is harder now in central NM with fewer dealers) no lights have re-appeared yet. Just returned from a 1000 mile trip pulling the 5th wheel around south eastern Utah and the 4-corners area. Worked it good and hard. I do very little around town driving, but I do allow it to idle sometimes while I do something like hook up or disconnect a trailer.



One thing I want to bring up... you all are discussing a reflash with the AS suffix. The tag on my 07 after the last software update has a BA suffix. Does that mean Dodge has run out of the A series updates and has advanced on to using B to designate updates?



Great discussions, and I sympathize with those of you who are having serious troubles with your trucks. I often wish I'd kept my 2003 5. 9.

 

[Jim W]

WRStrong,

If you have a 2007. 5 with a 6. 7L engine than you have the proper flash for your truck. The 2008's will have the AS flash, I have seen on another post that there maybe a later flash for the 08's, but not on this site. Per one of the three Dodge service tec's that have responded to our questions, he has stated that Dodge has different alpha codes for each year of our trucks. Such as the 07. 5 will end with the BA, the 08's will end with the AS and the 09's will end with a different suffix letters. Every time that Dodge updates the flash for the ECM then a new set of letters suffix are used for each model year of truck. Hope this helps.

 

[MullenaxM]

The 2007 pick-ups are now at the "BD" level suffiix



Mike

 

[WRStrong]

"The 2007 pick-ups are now at the "BD" level suffiix"



Thanks Mike. Any reason to try to get the new flash if all seems to be working fine? Thanks for all your input to this website. I'm amazed that you take the time to write such informative posts after working on these things all the time. We all appreciate it I'm sure.

 

[1Nebel0]

Got the truck back however mechanic had gone home for the night so didn't talk to him. . On the work order they cleaned the EGR valve again(just did that 500 miles ago) and they cleaned the DPF filter(would have like to discuss how that is done)and lastly installed new turbo with another flash. . dealer has been great to deal with as no questions are asked. . I will feel goo until the warranty is gone which will be in 3 years as my truck is only use on few occasions and mainly for pulling my 32ft pontoon boat and my pickle fork which is very light... we will see how long this upgrade lasts... well that's it for now. . looks like this post had a run for it's money... Mike, thanks for always jumping in. Your insights and knowledge and more importantly, your time is appreciated in helping us all understand the challenges of this new design... Steve

 

[Flys4Food]

Steve... I would like to know what you think about power and fuel mileage after living with this flash for a few days. Right after getting mine it seemed that the truck had lost some of it's UMPH! Well... tonight I took it on the interstate for the first time since the flash and it seems that I've lost about 6 miles to the gallon. UGH! Thought the power thing might be just in my mind now I don't know. It has to go back anyway... the turbo that they cleaned is leaking oil on my floor and I have brake fluid coming out of the right rear hub.



Greg

 

[1Nebel0]

The flash is the BS flash if I read the decal correctly. Greg, I won't be driving the truck until the weekend... I will drive 100 miles to get my boat and then tow it 5 miles to the lake. Then backhome another 100 miles... I will keep all posted to see how things go. . I noticed a difference with the ebrake right away... before I took it in, it was real harsh when it came on and would let go and then grab again... tonight it was real smooth as I was coming to a stop... must have been the soot that caused that given what I know about our VGT Turbo's... looking forward to driving this weekend. . Sure glad I dont need this truck for a daily driver or for commercial purpose... 1 1/2 week down... . Dealership has been great to work with other than the inconvienence of the whole thing. Now I need to reinstall the Edge system that has to come out everytime the truck goes in..... Best Steve...

 

[MullenaxM]

"BS" flash ? I like it !!



Its the "AS" flash, My thinking is when and if we get to the "BS" suffix flash, Dodge/Cummins will probably skip that suffix.



Just a thought!!



Mike

 

[JohnBower]

Tech Authority only lists the BA flash as the latest. Any idea what the flashes up to BD do?