Chrome Clad Wheels-Bad Design

[mapswain]

I am really irritated with Dodge. The "crome clad wheels" that my truck came stock with have been coming apart, and Dodge blames my "aftermarket tires".



I picked up my truck in late January of 2004 and upgraded to BFG 315-70-17 All Terrain tires in February. Other than very light rubbing on the trailing arms at full steering lock, the tires themselves have worked out fine.



Some time about April, I noticed that a piece of the wheel rim chrome overlay had broken off, exposing the black, powder coated wheel itself. The apparent cause was an improperly set swaging die that over-swaged the overlay into the flange of the wheel rim. A circumferential crack had formed at the center of the swaged area, and was happily propagating around the edge of the wheel. It finally loosened up a big enough area that it broke off entirely, like a big chrome smile, or more appropriately a frown.



I immediately went to the dealer, who was very cooperative and had the wheel replaced without incident. I was somewhat surprised that they left the old wheel in the back seat, but this gave me the opportunity to do a thorough post-mortem analysis of the problem.



This was the first time that I had really looked closely at the construction of the chrome clad steel wheels. I was surprised to find that the 0. 020" thick chrome face plate is not only swaged to the steel wheel, but is held on with silicone RTV as well. (kind of like a shade tree mechanic might do) This leaves a whole bunch of open channels between the wheel and the chrome overlay, which explains why I always had such a hard time rinsing dust off my wheels.



In that short space of a few months of service, there was already evidence of corrosion forming between the chrome overlay and the steel wheel. This was quite a surprise, since I live in California, and the wheel had never been subjected to a very corrosive environment, like you folks back east might see with salted roads.



I pretty much figured that this incident was behind me, and chocked it up to one defecative wheel, but several months later began to see the same problem with another wheel. By the time that the dealer had gotten in the second replacement, I found a third bad wheel and could see that this was not going to go away by simply installing more of the same.



I called Dodge customer service and they were completely unsympathetic. They attributed the problem to my having the BFG All Terrains on the truck, referring to them as an "aftermarket tire". Now I have to admit that they are not OEM tires, but neither are they some small obscure chunk of the tire market. BFG All Terrains are (for better or for worse) likely the single most common off road tire road today.



I have done a lot of looking at the interplay between this tire and wheel combination and have arrived at the following observation:

The "rim protector" on the BFG ATKO tires bears on the outside edge of the tire rim. This is right at the edge of the chrome overlay, where it is vulnerable to being worked loose from the wheel. So, although I did put these tires on the wheels, and may share some blame for the problem, what can Dodge be thinking when they design a wheel that is incompatible with such a popular tire. THIS IS SUCKY ENGINEERING DODGE!!! HEY ARE YOU GUYS LISTENING??? What happened to just chrome plating the wheels like you did for the 2nd generation trucks?? Yea, I know, it costs $1. 39 more per wheel and the bean counters said "NO". Well, bite me!



My advise to anyone out there is the following:



If you have the chrome clad steel wheels, don't install BFG ATKOs, or any smilar tire with a "rim protector" (I have heard that some Michelins have one. )



If you have the chrome clad wheels and drive your vehicle where salt or corrosion may be an issue, then keep a close eye on these fine examples of Dodge engineering.



I have been fortunate to have found a set of the stock aluminum wheels, so have now switched over. I just wish that I had chosen the aluminum wheels at the beginning so I would not have had this hassle.



All in all, it is a great truck, but for attention to a few small details.



Matt

 

[KBertetto]

Wow!! Thanks for the info on those wheels. I for one did not know that those wheels were just an overlayment as far as the chrome goes. I knew the 20" that comes on the ½ tons were, but this is news to me. My neighbor has the same wheels as you with 315 BFG ATKO's, I will contact him and check them out immediately. I have the aluminum wheels, so far so good, the clear coat is holding up well. Thanks again for the informative post.



Bert

 

[GWBourne]

im sad to hear that on your end. BUT there is a plus side for me on it. i dont like chrome. so if the dually rims are made the same then i may be able to rip the chrome off when/if i do a swap to dually... .

cool beans.

sorry to hear that you are having problems with yours.

Grant

 

[Bertram65]

What kind of machine was used to mount the tires? On older mounting machines the shoe that forces the tire onto rim would actually ride on the rim, the newer machines do not, I had a set of aluminum rims on a GMC damaged at Pep Boys by an older machine, it took all the clear of the face of the lip, it was a pain but I got them to replace the rims.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

On my early '04, the chrome looks like a plastic hubcap, not actually part of the wheel. I haven't investigated further. . .

 

[DaveMorris]

I know completely what you mean about cheap...



I was rotating the tires on mine and spinning the lugs off with a 4 way (figured it was safer than my impact gun)... well I gave it a good spin and the lug came off sooner than I thought, the front of the four way dropped and just tapped the wheel and put a ding (dent) in that chrome cover... Well sense it is a unremovable cover I now have a tiny little ding in one of my wheels... :-{} :{



Thanks for the heads up about the rim protectors it does make alot of sense... now all i have to worry about is the wife rubbing one agains a curb, sounds like it will basically shatter ...

 

[mapswain]

Bertram65,

I think that the tire machine used to mount the tires could indeed have been one of the older designs, but I looked things over carefully after the installatioin and found no signs of damage. The first problems did not show up for maybe six weeks or so. I am more concerned about how the tire bead must shear past the lip of the rim and the significant potential for it to catch and peel the chrome overlay as it does.



Matt

 

[JMelcher]

Another thing to watch out for on the chrome-clad wheels is the channel behind the face of the wheel. If you take your truck through the mud this channel can pack full of mud, which throws your tire balance off, and will shake your teeth out on the road.

 

[DPelletier]

I've said it before; I really think DC has let us down in the rim department. The chrome wheels have the issues, you've mentioned in this post. The alloy wheels were recalled due to cracking issues when they were first released and I think they don't look as nice as the GM or Ford alloys. And the Dually rims are simply chromed plastic simulators on top of a basic black steel wheel.



Dave

 

[nickleinonen]

I think they don't look as nice as the GM or Ford alloys

i can't speak for the ford wheels, but i do love how that gm code PYO aluminum wheel looks like. only gripe most have with them is them being only 6. 5" wide. . at least dodge gives us 8"

 

[ZRacer]

Sorry to see you have had such poor luck with the rims! I live in Mi where we have plenty of salt, and don't look forward to seeing my rims do the same! Of course this would give me an excuse to put a set of H2 rims or a set of KORE rims in thier place! Oh, by the way, the $1. 39 per wheel cost savings is part of DCX's MCM Program (Material Cost Managment). Executive bonuses are based on the MCM targets, so it is highly unlikely the Exec in charge of the Rims will be willing to cut into his own pocket! Dirty Buzzards!

 

[curatchko]

I work in the industry as an engineer, in the supplier world. I've worked at Alcoa wheels, which lost the bid for the Aluminum rim ON THIS TRUCK because a competitor convinced DCX that a 'Squeeze Cast' rim would do the job of a Forged rim, at half the cost. DCX bought it. Now I believe the 05's have a Forged rim, after ******* off customers. I could be wrong.



Back in around 2000, DC decided that ALL SUPPLIERS were going to cut costs, I think it was 5 percent across the board, immediately. Well, I don't know how many of you are familiar with this industry, but at the supplier level, we're already beat down to the lowest price possible, as the lowest bid always wins the contract, and due to competition abroad in 3rd world nations. So, when the American Auto industry tells us to cust 5 percent and you have x amount of months to do it, WHERE DO YOU ALL THINK IT'S COMING FROM? Quality.



I haven't done any chrysler work since then, but I do believe there have been further cost cutting mandates at a certain percent OVER AND BEYOND the cost reduction over the period of the program...



And it's not going to get any better. The 'Bling' factor on these new cars forces us to look away from the cheapness in all the parts, but these cars to day are being built with ONLY one thing in mind, and that is pleasing the share holders TODAY. Not tomorrow... or next year.

 

[ZRacer]

I'm right there with you Chris! I work at the Tech Center and I can't believe the things this company does these days. Everything is about making the buck now and screwing the long term durability. The Company says it wants to compete with the big boys-Toyota, Honda, and Nissan in Quality, yet we don't have the man power or brain power in place to do it! Besides, everything is about MCM. The more the Execs cut out of the product, the more that goes into their own! Upper Managment must be run by clueless bean counters, because if Technically oriented people ran the show, you would see a long lasting, durable and cost conscience product. Oo.



P. S. The Camaro is looking Sweet!! The headers turned out real nice! It is too bad you couldn't keep a Bowtie between the rails, but I think that Small Ford is going to really tear things up! After all, by the time we get done modifying and maching the engines, there isn't much left that is Ford, GM or Chrysler about it except for the block configureation. I personally would like to put a HPCR 5. 9 in my Camaro, but the big"C" would have to go on a big weight loss program!

 

[mapswain]

I really think that companies of yester-year had long term reputation and survivability on their minds at all times. They were honestly looking at how to make their products the best that they could be. Cost considerations have always been important, but back then, technology was the big limiting factor. Now, everybody has technology and the bean counters run the roost. It is all about maximizing proffit right now to make the stock look good the next quarter.



I kind of liken today's management philosophy to a new owner of an orchard, looking over the last owner's books and coming to the conclusion that by cutting the trees down, he can harvest the fruitfor half the cost. The price of the stock soars, but there is nothing left for next year.



Back to the real topic, I was really hoping to buy a set of Alcoas to replace the stock wheels. The Alcoa wheels appear to be a really high quality, no nonsense, non-bling wheel. I was ready to place an order when I started comparing the wheel dimensions to my stock wheels. I was really disappointed that Alcoa did not come out with a wheel with the nearly the same back spacing as the stock wheels. After reading about the "death wobble" and people having problems with the new style of front wheel bearings, I was not really eager to go experimenting with new wheel offsets. It might be different if the truck were not under warranty, but knowing DC's reaction to my changing tires on the stock rims, it was obvious that I would really be on my own if I changed wheel geometry and ran into trouble.



Since I have changed to the stock aluminum wheels, I now have noticed quite a bit more vibration in the front end on rough pavement, etc. I suspect that the shocks are already going bad (at 18,000 miles) and that the lighter wheels have changed the resonant frequency of the front end so that it is suddenly apparent. We'll see what new shocks do for the problem.



Matt