Chrysler to shut down

[PatrickHansen]

When I bought my wife a new car this spring, I bought a Subaru because of the size of the vehicle and the AWD. Given a choice between two comparable products, not just vehicles, I nearly always buy the American-made product. My car is a VW TDI. The Big Three had nothing comparable to these to offer me. Oh, and didn't the union contracts kill Studebaker back in the 60's?

 

[amsoilman]

Thanks Steve. I guess I'm one of them old farts that beleive in AMERICA, and the AMERICAN industry! I'll buy AMERICAN manufactured items any day, cars and trucks included!



Thanks again.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[GHarman]

When I bought my wife a new car this spring, I bought a Subaru because of the size of the vehicle and the AWD. Given a choice between two comparable products, not just vehicles, I nearly always buy the American-made product. My car is a VW TDI. The Big Three had nothing comparable to these to offer me. Oh, and didn't the union contracts kill Studebaker back in the 60's?

Which Subaru did you buy? The Outback is assembled in the U. S. A. . We have a 1996 Legacy Outback and it has over 226,000 miles on it. The motor finally gave up a head gasket. I will replace the motor with a used take off motor and run it somemore Does VW build their USA products here? Are the Subaru and other foreign vehicle makers in the U. S. A. Unionized (UAW or equal)? GregH

 

[Grizzly]

Thanks Steve. I guess I'm one of them old farts that beleive in AMERICA, and the AMERICAN industry! I'll buy AMERICAN manufactured items any day, cars and trucks included!

Thanks again.

Wayne

Wayne, my 03 Toyota Avalon and my wife's 03 Toyota Camry are also made in America, Georgetown, Kentucky that is, by non-union workers.

 

[FPettijohn]

Do you people believe the union is to blame for the auto industry woes, check out who makes our tanks and most of our military vehicles, do you suppose China will take over if the big 3 disappear. Check the facts on who gives the most to US charity's, it sure isn't the transplants, oh yea 1 more thing guess where all the money the transplants make goes; if you said not the US you may be smarter than a 5th grader. 1 more thing, check out content law and get back to me.

Be American By American

Fred

 

[GHarman]

Four words why the Detroit auto industry is in trouble: greedy unions, greedier management.

Why are Unions considered Greedy? Management and dealerships are the folks that really make the money! A union worker agreed to work for specific wages and benefits. It was/is a CONTRACT that is between adults (I think) and the workers have fulfilled their part of the bargain, with or without their past concessions. The Union contract spells out the wages and benefits actually paid and promised. The difference between actual and the $70. 00+ /hr. cost that has been reported are administrative costs. That is not the fault of the union worker. That is the problem of "management".

Lets look at the cost of our favorite trucks! What do you think the difference between dealer invoice vs the factory invoice vs the actual cost to manufacture would be? I have no answers other than my own buying experience with my 91 Dodge. The dealer sticker price was ~$21,000, I paid $18,500 and was taxed at the factory invoice price of $14,853 (original taxable value). I'll bet the new trucks dont cost $50,000 to manufacture, even in a good economy. The dealers and brokers keep jacking up the prices while the union share of the cost of manufacturing stays the same and is not based on the sale price but ~8-10% of the factory invoice price minus factory profit. Its easy to assign blame, but when you break it down into accounts receivable there is a different picture, altogether!

Present Union Contracts can and should be renegotiated based on the economic situation. Contracts with retires should not be broken or modified. They did their part of the bargain, the companies in question have yet to fulfil their part of the bargain. If the auto companies cannot, in good faith fulfill their agreements with their own people, HOW?? IN THE NAME OF EVERYTHING THAT WE HOLD SACRED, DO YOU THINK THE COMPANIES WILL BE FOUND TRUSTWORTHY WITH BAILOUT FUNDS??? (EMPHASIS!) GregH

 

[LBARTLETT]

Who was there to bail out the poor suckers that worked for years for Enron and ended up with nothing, nada, not even squat, they had a contract!!! who's going to bail out my and everyone else's 401k that now aren't even 201k's, the car manufacturers, municipalities, States, etc. have all been financing their retirement obligations with debt/bonds instead of earnings or the present tax rate, wait until this all comes to a head, why do you think Calif. can't borrow any more money, the latest thing they (all States for the most part) have robbed their unemployment tax fund and spent the money, now with high unemployment they are going to need to raise the unemployment tax because the reserve has been spent, when in the hell are we going to trow the bums out and get a party that makes financial sense for the taxpayer

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, my 03 Toyota Avalon and my wife's 03 Toyota Camry are also made in America, Georgetown, Kentucky that is, by non-union workers.

With deep respect for your choice of vehicles, I will agree the vehicles you mention are "Assembled" in USA, but if you look at the price listing on the windows of the new ones you mention, more than 75 % of the parts are made in Japan.

I do however, beleive in choices.



Wayne

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

With deep respect for your choice of vehicles, I will agree the vehicles you mention are "Assembled" in USA, but if you look at the price listing on the windows of the new ones you mention, more than 75 % of the parts are made in Japan.

I do however, beleive in choices.



Wayne

And for even MORE reality, in regards to our Dodge/Cummins trucks "built in the USA" at US factories, take out all the foreign made components from tires and trim, to the electronics and the "cast in Brazil or Mexico" engine blocks and various other drivetrain parts - and you'd likely be left with a vehicle unable to move out of it's own shadow...



"Made in America" has long since joined the tooth fairy and Santa as far as truth vs reality is concerned...

 

[Grizzly]

With deep respect for your choice of vehicles, I will agree the vehicles you mention are "Assembled" in USA, but if you look at the price listing on the windows of the new ones you mention, more than 75 % of the parts are made in Japan.

I do however, beleive in choices.



Wayne

All cars and trucks, domestic or foreign, are very much global, as parts are made all over the world, as Gary said.

 

[EGroeneveld]

I don't really care where things are made or by who. I just want them to work. My next car will not be Ford/GM/ or Dodge because of the basic fact that I like most people who have bought a Toyota Camry have put 50k miles on it with out doing anything other then maintenance items. On the other hand my 2005 Dodge 3500 has had numerous recalls and issues before it hit 50k miles. Then there is my 2005 Ford Excursion, great truck other then the brakes, the alt at 35k, batteries at 33k and a possible slipping transmission at 36k. Why would I even go look at a GM or Ford car?



Heaven help the big three if Toyota starts making 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with diesel motors.

 

[Jaysyl]

I also have a 05 3500. The only recall I have had was the out of park back up alarm thing. Which is the G17 or something recall. What other ones are there for my truck? Are there numerous others?

 

[amsoilman]

All cars and trucks, domestic or foreign, are very much global, as parts are made all over the world, as Gary said.

And I agree with that! Somehow after going through two wars with the Japanese and Koreans, I just feel a bit more American by buying domestic brands, and I realize it's just a feeling i'm comfortable with.



Now I do realize also, that if I go into Walies World, I'm going to find the biggest majority of goods will be foreign made.



Wayne

 

[Grizzly]

And I agree with that! Somehow after going through two wars with the Japanese and Koreans, I just feel a bit more American by buying domestic brands, and I realize it's just a feeling i'm comfortable with.



Now I do realize also, that if I go into Walies World, I'm going to find the biggest majority of goods will be foreign made.



Wayne

Well, I didn't go through any wars while in the military, but I did serve in Japan for 18 months in the 60's and I must say, I have the highest respect for the Japanese people.



I would like to be as patriotic as the next man, however I'll be darn if I will spend thousands of dollars on a high maintenance car or truck like the last ford truck I had. So far my two Dodge trucks have been maintenance free, which were both made in Mexico.

 

[BrianJ]

It's funny - I hear this stuff all the time but the facts don't bear that out - In Depth: The Year's Best-Selling Cars - Forbes.com



Top 10 best selling vehicles for 2008 (January - November):



10. Ford Focus (184,152)

9. Dodge Ram (229,222)

8. Chevy Impala (244,692)

7. Nissan Altima (252,357)

6. Toyota Corolla (328,878)

5. Honda Accord (350,638)

4. Honda Civic (352,248)

3. Toyota Camry (411,342)

2. Chevy Silverado (431,725)

1. Ford F150 (473,933)



So 5 of the top 10 selling vehicles in the US are made by the big 3) so somebody wants them.

The facts as you have presented them don't mean a lot to me when discussing the big 3 vs imports, in particular Japanese brands. To be comparable you really need to take the truck sales out of the equation. First, those sales include ALL trim levels of each truck line (i. e. F150-F650 & E150-E???), with many of those units fleet and business purpose vehicles with no HD level competition from the imports. If you want to compare big three to the imports you really have to break it down to cars. Looking at those numbers there are two domestics on the list vs 5 imports, even more telling is the unit sales of only 413,374 for the domestics vs 1,695,463 for the imports.



I am afraid the quality and more importantly reputation of domestic passenger CARS has been something less than desireable since the fuel embargo of the 70's and the introduction of the Japanese imports. Believe me, I wish it weren't the case, but there isn't an american made passenger car that can hold the jock strap of a Corolla, Camry, Accord, or Civic in regards to quality and reliability.

 

[Tractorat]

I think some of you may be missing the point when talking about the quality of the cars/trucks. Everything being equal, I would probably buy an American product again even if it may not be as good as a foreign product.



I will not buy another American car because of the unions. There is no patriotism in giving those guys $73/hr when the Japanese get better product with half the labor cost. The UAW is not out for America, it is out for itself and the union, and screw the rest of us.



You can only take so much. I say let them go bankrupt, and let someone else pick up the pieces. Someone will buy the assets and build cars. Probably with the same people. Only now they will make $45/hr. Then, maybe more people can afford new cars. Maybe more people will buy new cars.



I dont know what kind of education it takes to work in a factory in Detroit. But from what I see on news clips, it looks like you can get by with a 5th grade education and get the $73. Someone correct me if Im wrong here



TRat

 

[BrianJ]

I have to agree with what you say Tractorat... The one and only reason I wouldn't mind seeing them fail is to break the union.



60 minutes or some news show recently interviewed several employees from both the import operations in the southern states and the big three factories and it was night and day the difference in employee moral and attitude. Every one of the import factory workers were very satisfied and enthusiastic about their jobs, plants, and future.



To me it's a toss up on which one (domestic or import) is better to support. Do you want to support the suits (executives) at the domestic brand headquarters and UAW that are living a life of excess or is it worth sending only the profit dollars to Japan to support the import brand manufacturing jobs in the US??? Actually, it might not be so much a toss up after all. And I would venture to bet the dollars going to the import brand manufacturing jobs in the US are supporting the American economy more than what is being trickled down from the fat cat executives of the big three and UAW.

 

[SSell]

I will not buy another American car because of the unions. There is no patriotism in giving those guys $73/hr when the Japanese get better product with half the labor cost. The UAW is not out for America, it is out for itself and the union, and screw the rest of us. --j



---just to be devil's advocate, they dont get $73/hr, typically assemblers earn $50k-$60k per year, new hires get around 15 bucks/ hr. The $73/hr figure includes the huge, underfunded pension costs these companies owe. Any japanese manufacturers offering a pension plan to US employees? It is what it is, I'd just hope the outcome of this doesn't include screwing over all these retirees.

 

[Tractorat]

SSell,

Im sure that you are right about the actual take home pay. It is the huge benefit package they've voted themselves in. Which is why I really dont care about the retiree's. In most cases, they are the ones that were around voting in the outrageous benefits.



BTW, 50-60k is an awful lot for assemblers of anything. Not what you would necessarily call a high skilled job in my opinion.



Just my 2 cents

 

[SSell]

Oh I agree with all of that, just think that $73/hr figure keeps getting used out of context. One thing my mother pointed out (still lives near a jeep plant) is why is it everytime the local news interviews the UAW folks about all this tragedy, they're at the bar?