Class 8 Mechanical Type's

[BIGNASTY]

Need info, for a request on different Class 8 trucks for FIL/Son. Do any of you Mechanical Type's have experience with this type product. Just in case MT ever makes trucks go to DPF's I wouldn't want to have them re-buy equipment to comply. Have talked to some that say it cuts down on power some say it cuts on milage (well it will use some to work) Mostly just wondering if the actually work without screwing up the truck. Would like to get truck with 3406 A or B 0R Big Cam Cummins because I can still work on them as compared to new trucks. Thanks for your help





http://www.ironmanparts.com/?id=emi3&sub=products&pg=prods





BIG

 

[mwilson]

Need info, for a request on different Class 8 trucks for FIL/Son. Do any of you Mechanical Type's have experience with this type product. Just in case MT ever makes trucks go to DPF's I wouldn't want to have them re-buy equipment to comply. Have talked to some that say it cuts down on power some say it cuts on milage (well it will use some to work) Mostly just wondering if the actually work without screwing up the truck. Would like to get truck with 3406 A or B 0R Big Cam Cummins because I can still work on them as compared to new trucks. Thanks for your help



BIG

Big,



I don't think that that will ever happen anywhere other than Arnold's state.

It takes a lot of electronic components to make a DPF work and each engine manufacturer has their own software to do so. It would not be feasible as the time and expense to retrofit an older unit just would not make sense. Not to mention questionable reliability.

In stock form the truck will have the required EPA emissions equipment already in place for the year in which it was built. 2004 and back is not too bad, 1998 and back is even better. I don't see how Commiefornia is going to pull it off.



I would say that a boatload of older trucks will be sold off out of state. Any add-on system is going to be a PITA and not hardly worth the effort.



I don't see how a state (other than Commiefornia which hardly qualifies anymore) could even think about forcing a retrofit. But, it is a rare day that something doesn't come along and surprise me... .....



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

I see that some of Ironman's kits use 12 volt power rather than fuel to power the regen, that is the same system that the early CARB compliant Tri-Pac Gensets had.



What a glob of extra stuff, bigger alternator and such to make that regen work. I can't even imagine it on a big rig.



I would sell what I had and go peddling fruits and veg to make a living before trying it with a retrofitted Class 8.



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Thanks Mike but I must correct you it's NOT Arnie's state anymore someone on site has renamed it Gov. Moom beam :-laf:-laf That to me is just funny as Hell. I can find older trucks and bunches of them in very good shape and I can even turn a wrench on THEM. I just didn't want to get into some rebuild only to find out that the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER JUST HIT THE FAN. I didn't think that the GOV. would make all retro their trucks they haven't actually made CA do it YET if they did there would be one heck of a truck shortage in the U. S. because most would just hang it up. As you know parts can still be had for the older power plants that dont require a degree in Rocket Science to work on ,it's not like the FIL/Son will be driving cross country but need more weight handling capabilities than my International can handle for their operations around their ranch project.



BIG

 

[mwilson]

Thanks Mike but I must correct you it's NOT Arnie's state anymore someone on site has renamed it Gov. Moom beam :-laf:-laf That to me is just funny as Hell. I can find older trucks and bunches of them in very good shape and I can even turn a wrench on THEM. I just didn't want to get into some rebuild only to find out that the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER JUST HIT THE FAN. I didn't think that the GOV. would make all retro their trucks they haven't actually made CA do it YET if they did there would be one heck of a truck shortage in the U. S. because most would just hang it up. As you know parts can still be had for the older power plants that dont require a degree in Rocket Science to work on ,it's not like the FIL/Son will be driving cross country but need more weight handling capabilities than my International can handle for their operations around their ranch project.



BIG

To me the CARB regulations (under Gov. Moon Beam) are trying to overrule the EPA regulations for a particular year of truck.



If the truck was built to EPA regs in, say 1998 and still meets those 1998 regs I don't see how a State can come along and force you to upgrade it to 2008 EPA spec for example... ... ...



MIke.

 

[BIGNASTY]

That was like the old CAR's in Ca older than like 79 you didnt have to have smog eqiupment. 79 and up IT JUST HAD TO HAVE WHAT CAME ON IT.

 

[mwilson]

As luck would have it, I just got this from CARB as I am signed up for the mailings because of Thermo King.

This applies to TRU units (Truck Reefer Units) but shows that thye are forcing compliance on MY2005 units. How far back will they try to go???



Snip*

The California Air Resources Board (ARB) urges transport

refrigeration unit (TRU or reefer) owners to take immediate

action to plan and order compliance options for model year (MY)

2005 TRUs.



MY 2005 TRUs must comply with in-use performance standards by

December 31, 2012. If there is a delay in delivery or

installation of compliance technology, you may qualify for a

compliance extension, provided you ordered the compliance

technology before the purchase order deadline and the TRU is

registered in ARBER. Purchase orders must be placed early enough

to take into account delivery, installation, holiday, and

year-end lead times.



The purchase order deadlines are:



• For engine repowers and TRU replacements: By the end of August

(in less than 10 days!), which is four months ahead of the

compliance deadline



• For verified diesel particulate filter retrofits: By the end

of October, which is two months ahead of the compliance deadline



For model year 2005 engines, owners must make a good-faith effort

to comply by the end of 2012. If compliance cannot be achieved

by December 31, 2012, due to delays in delivery, installation, or

financing, reefer owners may apply for a compliance extension.

To qualify for a compliance extension, the reefer must be

registered in ARBER, purchase orders must be placed by the

purchase order deadlines listed above, and a compliance extension

application with attached supporting documentation must be

received at ARB by December 31, 2012.



The TRU Website is at: http://www.arb.ca.gov/diesel/tru/tru.htm



Snip*



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I knew that Ca was going after the Refer units any rebuild or conversion to new refer units had to be the CARB compliant or risk not coming into CA. But didn't know how far they would go back after trucks. Boy there are going to be a bunch of O/O's that will quit or be forced to buy new equipment. Was looking at new Pete's thats out of bounds on truck prices



BIG

 

[BIGNASTY]

Just a quick glance at the info was mainly directed at Ca trucks and trucks entering CA I can almost guarantee that their truck will never go there. But like my first post WILL OTHER STATES FOLLOW? I have a call into the man that was the head Mech. where I worked to see what he knows, again Mike thanks for the help. FRIGGIN CA WE SHOULD JUST CUT THEM OFF THE LAND MASS and let someone else have them not much left there anyway.





After I posted FIL came over I told him of the dilemma He said that he needs to buy some shack in Canada and put some scum bag illegals in it for a mailing address to register a truck there and to also " F " with the Canucks :-laf





BIG

 

[chipster]

Thanks Mike but I must correct you it's NOT Arnie's state anymore someone on site has renamed it Gov. Moom beam :-laf:-laf That to me is just funny as Hell. I can find older trucks and bunches of them in very good shape and I can even turn a wrench on THEM. I just didn't want to get into some rebuild only to find out that the I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER JUST HIT THE FAN. I didn't think that the GOV. would make all retro their trucks they haven't actually made CA do it YET if they did there would be one heck of a truck shortage in the U. S. because most would just hang it up. As you know parts can still be had for the older power plants that dont require a degree in Rocket Science to work on ,it's not like the FIL/Son will be driving cross country but need more weight handling capabilities than my International can handle for their operations around their ranch project.



BIG

when he was govenor back in the `70`s he drove a `64 dodge valiant and was a "flower child" we called him " moon beam ". I cannot believe the older voters let him in AGAIN !!! I hope he`s tied to the tracks if his bullet train gets built !! LOL !!! :{ :-laf Moon beam and the other tree huggers think they can do any thing they want, in the name of " GREEN"" it`s good for you !! no matter what it costs

 

[BIGNASTY]

Chipster



I cant agree with you more I made my money and some of my retirement there and GLAD TO LEAVE It was a decent place but has become the U. S. A. 's BIGGEST JOKE. I say give it to mexico (I cant even capitalize that word) and let the A** Holes have it (oh I found the shift key on that one) They will be in the toilet for a VERY LONG TIME. Even the smarter of the illegals are leaving and going 3 states to the east. :-laf

 

[Wayne M.]

Hey Big, I've been heavily involved in this situation since the beginning. Our 2002 Mack E7 ASET era trucks were brought into compliance with this unit.
http://www.ironmanparts.com/?id=emi3&sub=products&pgid=CL_Longview
It was and continues to be a DISASTER. I don't know if it's the in cylinder EGR or just nature of the beast with our drive cycles, but we experience all the fears you're thinking about. The next batch of trucks were factory fitted with an active DPF.
This is what it looks like on paper... what we had to go through. http://www.nyc.gov/html/unccp/gprb/downloads/pdf/NYC_Retrofitting Sanitation Fleet.pdf
This is the local law that causes us to HAVE to buy expensive trucks. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/ll39.pdf This law AFAIK applies to what the city can use, and who contracts with the city has to follow it.
Be positive about what he wants to do. Contact the EPA agencies where he wants to operate and do your homework. The greenies are really out of control. They can legislate an operation out of existence very quickly!

 

[Wayne M.]

I should clarify that the retrofit system on the 2002 trucks didn't work in that application. That's not to say it wouldn't work on something else. I see them on the International school buses all over the place... I wasn't knocking the system, just that it didn't work with the engine and/or the drive cycle of house to house garbage pick up.

 

[mwilson]

Hey Big, I've been heavily involved in this situation since the beginning. Our 2002 Mack E7 ASET era trucks were brought into compliance with this unit.

http://www.ironmanparts.com/?id=emi3&sub=products&pgid=CL_Longview

It was and continues to be a DISASTER. I don't know if it's the in cylinder EGR or just nature of the beast with our drive cycles, but we experience all the fears you're thinking about. The next batch of trucks were factory fitted with an active DPF.

This is what it looks like on paper... what we had to go through. http://www.nyc.gov/html/unccp/gprb/downloads/pdf/NYC_Retrofitting Sanitation Fleet.pdf

This is the local law that causes us to HAVE to buy expensive trucks. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/ll39.pdf This law AFAIK applies to what the city can use, and who contracts with the city has to follow it.

Be positive about what he wants to do. Contact the EPA agencies where he wants to operate and do your homework. The greenies are really out of control. They can legislate an operation out of existence very quickly!

Wayne,



I did not know NYC was pulling that stunt and getting away with it, those Ironman systems look expensive and bound to cause trouble. A lot of companies will not survive such a local mandate.



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Wayne



Thanks for the info and insight. The only reason FIL/Son want a bigger truck is to transport livestock around and to take farm equipment to shop or bring large parts to the equipment and haul feed in to cattle operation that they have going. They had FIL's tractor moved from his place to Sons place I asked what that cost it was? a big chunk of cash and they will do it a few times a year. Same with feed FIL buys feed from the MT hay exchange and has it trucked in THATS SOME BUCKS because of the amount needed. The list goes on and transportation is a big cost. I have a ticket to drive and both the FIL and Son do (but I wouldn't let them drive my lawnmower) until they got some experience in the seat. With what they are doing the cost of owning a truck and a few trailers would be more than be paid off in a year or two. But a new truck with all the headaches of the DPF crap and the problems that new trucks have, its not like the old ones take them off the lot and never go back the new ones my buddy has are Mack's with MP7 and MP8 motors are just junk other O/O's that I know aren't having very much luck with ANY OF THE NEW truck, engine combo's. Its their call im just throwing in thoughts about transportation costs and it must be advantages because the FIL crunched the numbers and wanted to talk about it.

 

[Wayne M.]

Mike, we've been done with that retrofit. I watched a major road construction outfit go through it because they were on a big state road job. Dirty trucks on the jobsite with shiny new "mufflers" on 'em. At the time there was a federal grant to help anyone. I don't know the specifics on that though.
Sure was a stunt- the city council is outta control. They are "telling" new Moms to breastfeed and holding back the nice care package of formula and stuff usually given out in the maternity.

 

[Wayne M.]

its not like the old ones take them off the lot and never go back the new ones my buddy has are Mack's with MP7 and MP8 motors are just junk

LOL it's about a 90/5/5 split with the 90 being MP7's and MP8's and Cummins QSB6. 7 being the rest. We've been having decent luck mechanically with our 7's with the big trouble being electrical/ harness issues. I never see the 8's or the 6. 7's in the sweepers. We just got 2010 MP7's with urea injection/ SCR and so far they have been real good.



I shouldn't reveal this but the recycling truck we bought in 2000 cost almost 170K. The SAME EXACT TRUCK coming in now is almost 300k. I guess it's the price of steel and technology, aside from inflation.



We've just been assigned this truck to babysit. Supposedly it was $700,000. We didn't buy it-- YET.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Wayne



The MP7's he has 6 of them are the one's that burn diesel to do the re-gen I drove one when we did the Fuel run from WA to CA it was new and for around 425 horse wasn't to bad (BUTT UGLY TRUCK) But I was on the inside so it didn't matter. The new one's he has I think he has 7 or 8 of them are the MP8 with the Pee burner type re-gen. He has had better luck with the newer ones but still go in often for bad this or that and is mostly about the re-gen equipment. That's why I want NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NEW DODGE TRUCKS. Its all junk and ill wait to see IF they get the bugs worked out.

 

[Wayne M.]

The new ones have the same DPF. The pee dosent actually burn, it's injected later on after the DPF. So the 2010-up system has both.
Yes, I won't own this stuff. DEATH GRIP on my '04 AND it's paid off!!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

DEATH GRIP on my '04!!

YOU BET