Class 8 tractor or keep 2001 3500

[Bob Cochran]

I am on the fence and would like to get some honest opinions. I respect everyone here at TDR so will pose this question. I either need to move up to an HDT tractor or start modifiying my 2001 dually 3500 to make it a better towing machine. I suspect those that have a HDT will say this is the way to go while others with pickups will say to modify. I kind of like input from those who have made this decision one way or the other and why. As for my truck if I keep will have to add a FASS or Waldpro, larger injectors, Smarty, probably clutch(this one not slipping yet), IP sooner or later and maybe a new turbo charger. Thanks for the help and I don't want to start a war so lets all be calm. :-laf

 

[NVR FNSH]

What are you planning on towing? A pop-up trailer won't ever require a Class 8 rig

Since you're asking I'm going to guess you're planning on towing something beyond the factory GCWR . If you're going to be relying on the truck/tractor for your livelihood I'd probably err on the side of overkill and go the Class 8 route.

Brian

 

[jelag]

I'm sure what you really mean is a class 5 or 6 tractor... . A class 8 can be rated up to 80,000 lbs.....

Remember that there still is a use tax on large trucks over class 5 and above... as I remember this tax is 12% of the purchase price...

I'm now looking at replacing a F550 Ford with either the new 5500..... or an F650..... the F650 can be built with either a CAT mid size engine at 300 hp and 850 ft lbs of torque or the new 6. 7 L Cummins at 300 hp and 650 ft lbs of torque.....

If the F650 is within $2K of the 5500... . than I'm going to cancel my order on the 5500 and take the F650... . The F550 was a great chassis but the power stroke was the down fall... it now has 500K miles and its time to go. .

Just my nickels worth. .

 

[R C Cola]

Which truck

Will you be runing commercial and working the truck constantly or basicly a weekender ? I have run my rig steady for 3 yrs first with freight then with RV's . The mid-size trucks offer bigger brakes, wheels, tires, shocks, bearings, gears, (yes it matters). For the weekender our trucks will do a nice job with upgrades as needed and last quite well. At the upper end of the weight scale 18k to 30k trannys are weak for most of us and the brakes are at the upper limit of their safety and ability. I plan to go back to a trailer with cars etc. on it but knowing that my maintainance costs will rise (almost double) Long term goal is to move up to a mid-size (probably an FL 80 ) with more up front costs and much lower yearly maintainance. Side point, most present owners I speak with that have made the switch are very happy .

 

[Bob Cochran]

Will lets see a tent trailer, I could load that and not let it touch the ground. As for GCWR I am at the limit the last time I weighed and it could be slightly over the limit of 21,500 but probably not by much. I need t weigh again after the installing the 70 gallon TransferFlow with fuel in it. I am sure since I weighed last the wife as added a few things.



I just want something reliable that I don't have to worry about EGT on hills or if I am over GCWR, and laugh at hills no matter percent grade. I think the use tax is a state thing but not sure. Don't think there is one in Arizona.



MDT are just way to expensive for what you get. You can get a good class 7 or 8 for less than $30,000 with less than 500,000 miles. I found a Volvo for that kind of dollars that just had a create engine installed. I was still on the fence so did not get it and missed the opportunity!!! Then of course if it is tandum axle you have to have it singled, or I should say I would, etc. but that is not a large expense. Thinking a condo sleeper converted so for just over night would use tractor without 5er.



I think those that have went to HDT say this is the way to go. I just am still on the fence still.



Thanks for input so far.

 

[16919]

For only towing 21,500 I would say stick with the truck. If you were constantly over 25,000 the I would say start shopping.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Living in the state where lawyers advertise profusely, I'd only like to mention that SHOULD any little fender-bender occur be "Kareful" not to be overweight with your 2001 and rig. At the last two May Madness events, this theme was pretty well drummed into us, so it must be getting more attention these days.

Not to be a party poop, what kind of mileage would that Volvo have gotten?

Greg

 

[Cattletrkr]

I routinely top the 40K mark and do it comfortably with my 3500. If I didn't need 4WD I'd have something bigger in a heartbeat.

There's no shakey ground when towing over GCVWR unless you overload your tires. Double check with your insurance company first though.

 

[16919]

Make sure you are registered for that weight with either 24k or 26 k plates and I think you would be ok... ... ... ... ... and stay on top of maintenance.

 

[Bob Cochran]

All good input and I am starting to agree with all about keeping the truck and dumping the idea of buying a class 8. As far as towing th Volvo would get a about 10 perhaps less and empty not to much more. We Are talking a tractor that weighs in at 14,000 #'s approximately by itself. Of course depending on what you get I would buy nothing less than 400 HP but can get 600 HP with dual turbos. Won't be trying to get those numbers with my truck though that is for sure just something 350 to 400 HP and reliable that won't strand me someplace. Not worried about towing the higher weight so much as stopping it!!!! Liability is a whole other can of worms and I am within a few hundred pounds of GCWR I beleive. I do need to get this thing re-weighed. Maintenance I am real annual abotu that anyway so it will be buisness as usual.

 

[MMeier]

There's no shakey ground when towing over GCVWR unless you overload your tires. Double check with your insurance company first though.

... and your attorney!!

 

[MMeier]

All good input and I am starting to agree with all about keeping the truck and dumping the idea of buying a class 8. As far as towing th Volvo would get a about 10 perhaps less and empty not to much more. We Are talking a tractor that weighs in at 14,000 #'s approximately by itself. Of course depending on what you get I would buy nothing less than 400 HP but can get 600 HP with dual turbos. Won't be trying to get those numbers with my truck though that is for sure just something 350 to 400 HP and reliable that won't strand me someplace. Not worried about towing the higher weight so much as stopping it!!!! Liability is a whole other can of worms and I am within a few hundred pounds of GCWR I beleive. I do need to get this thing re-weighed. Maintenance I am real annual abotu that anyway so it will be buisness as usual.

Just go and register the Dodge at 26000#... no CDL, IFTA or other BS, especially since it looks like you are only going to use it for personal use anyways. I have my '03 registered at 34,200# in 11 states, truck with empty trailer alone comes in at 18,500#

 

[PLaFrombois]

What have people heard about the Sterling Bullet? This is a 4500 & 5500 MDT with the 6. 7.



Paul

 

[MAshley]

What are you towing? From where to where? Personall or for hire. Does size matter where you drive? City or mostly highway. How heavy is your trailer?

How oftern are you empty and or no trailer?

Experiance
I own a 06 DRW 3500, 4x4 quad cab, Pacbrake, and tow a trailer that weighs 15K lbs. Total GCVW last time I checked was about 24K lbs. 45K miles and no major issues.
But I divide my opinion in 2 areas
#1
I have towed to Miami FL from Seattle WA, at 25K lbs and on the open highway, in rain, snow, sun I have had no issues. Pulls at 70 MPH no issues

#2 But in Seattle traffic for the past year, braking is my #1 concern, people cut you off, and then stop right in front of you, Hills especially going down, you have to watch the lights ETC, the Exhaust brake helps but I have to maintain and adjust my trailers brakes often.

I must admit that having a bumper pull trailer is not the best option. I have been told a GN is night and day differance over the bumper style. When I do get a GN I will be over 26K lbs so having a CDL will be needed.

Basicly there 2 differnet environments. What would you be in mostly?

FYI in case you don't know bobtailing " IE with no trailer" a Class 8 truck can be a safty issue.

 

[Bob Cochran]

Pulling a 14000# Everest 5er 35 foot with triple slides. I will be driving personnel and NOT for hire and tow with and without 5er 50%. Size really is not a problem. Mostly highway with some city towing( I like to avoid!!). True bobtailing can be a safety issue and to keep to much weight off the front axle especially if you single a tandum weight has to be added to the rear to move the front axle weight back to the rear.

 

[MAshley]

Bob ... . I just re read some of your posts. What is it that you dont' like about your current setup?

I wouldn't think your setup is not much different then mine, Im a little heavier, and a bumper pull, and your a little taller but lighter and a little lower in power and Tq, but I assume you can still do 70 MPH down the road. I would assume with your mods power wise we are very simular. and with a tri axle trailer with properly adjusted brakes should be better then me... Yes you are close and maybe a little over on the GCVWR by dodge but there are guys who are 34K lbs all day long... . Personally I don't see much advantage in upgrading, especially in regards to driving empty, a class 8 truck is just BIG, can't do drive through, takes more spaces to park ETC. would you have a sleeper? How would you do the area behind the drivers seat? Do you really want to drive a semi 50% of the time when your empty? Loaded though your pretty much Light. as in your camper is lighter then a 53' box van empty. so a single axle, is plenty, and may even be over kill. But it would have the cool factor, and would last longer then you.

 

[Ross]

Bob:



I've had both/done both. I pull a HEAVY, LONG living quarters horsetrailer that weighs 23,500 fully loaded with gear, water, etc. I towed this with a 1998 3500 Dodge that was bombed to about 425 hp. Besides power adders, I also added air bags, exhaust brake, and 14 ply tires (load rate G) to help with the weight aspect. This truck did fine, would get about 7. 5-8. 3 mpg, and would pull 70-75 mph with ease. One problem, I knew I was overloading the truck, and could hear frame twisting creaks and growns every time I took off from a stop light. The truck would twist and torque just like a big truck when leaving from a stop light. I don't think they are engineered for this much weight. I put about 175,000 miles on this truck with good service and reliability. But as it got older, I had less and less confidence in it.



When it was time to buy a new one, I considered the HDT route, and ultimately gave it a try. I purchased a 2000 Volvo VNL 64T with a N14 Cummins at 500 hp, and a 10 speed Eaton Autoshift. The truck had 640,000 miles when I bought it. I had the truck "converted" to an RV hauler by removing an axle, installing a microwave and refridgerator. These items allow the truck to be registered as an RV in the state of NM. Check you rules, as they vary from state-to-state.



The Volvo pulled the trailer as you might expect. Stopping was quite easy, as was pulling long hard hills with ease. To my surprise, the Volvo got better economy than my Dodge did, without breaking a sweat. I would routinely get from 8. 4 to 9. 5 mpg.



Now for the down-side. My wife refused to drive it. Maintenance is expensive. Repairs are expensive. Washing it is a pain. It was a pain to get around town in, and the ride is not as nice as in a pickup.



I had an accident and injured my shoulder last September and needed my wife to drive us home (about a 300 mile trip). She refused to drive the Volvo. The fact that she absolutely would not drive it forced me to reconsider the practicality of owning an HDT.



After owning the Volvo for 2 years and putting about 60,000 miles on it, I sold it for exactly what I bought it for. Try doing that in a pickup.



I now have a new Megacab dually, and have out-fitted it similar to the way I had my old 1998. It does everything just fine, except it gets worse mileage. I'm doing good to exceed 8. 0 mpg/usually about 7. 5. My worst so far has been 7. 2 mpg. But, my wife will drive it, and the ride is superior to the HDT. Plus, it's more useful around town.



That's my 15 1/2 cents... .

 

[Bart]

Bob, I have a friend, who went the Class 8 route after he burned up two automatics. He lives in the mountains of So. Cal. After the second auto he went out and bought a used Frieghtliner. He had the second set of axles removed from the rear end and the frame bobbed too. He has a Cummins up front "still" and loves it, but it's strickly a haul his Holiday Rambler 5th wheel with early Bronco stuffed in the back. He still has his C/D (Cummins/Dodge) but it's not for draggin' things around any more. IF you can afford 'em both that's a nice way to go. Most of us can,t although he "said" that he had about $20k invested in the Freightliner. I've thought about that, especially since I just bought a new triple axle 39' toy hauler (also with early Bronco addition). Braking is GREAT with the 6 extra brakes behind me. I can see it lift the front of the C/D on a serious brake requirement.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[Bart]

Bob:





When it was time to buy a new one, I considered the HDT route, and ultimately gave it a try. I purchased a 2000 Volvo VNL 64T with a N14 Cummins at 500 hp, and a 10 speed Eaton Autoshift. The truck had 640,000 miles when I bought it. I had the truck "converted" to an RV hauler by removing an axle, installing a microwave and refridgerator. These items allow the truck to be registered as an RV in the state of NM. Check you rules, as they vary from state-to-state.



The Volvo pulled the trailer as you might expect. Stopping was quite easy, as was pulling long hard hills with ease. To my surprise, the Volvo got better economy than my Dodge did, without breaking a sweat. I would routinely get from 8. 4 to 9. 5 mpg.



Ross, If I can highjack this thread for a second. Would you email me off line at john. watson@usmc. mil I'd like to know more about the class 8 you used. I'm either going to put more $$$ into my 98 12 valve or go that route. I'm leaning toward the bigger rig for many of the same reasons you did.

 

[Bob Cochran]

At this point it is a big IF I am going class 8. I guess what I am looking for is better reliablity, ease on those grades and all that good stuff. As to driving around town granted it is HIGH but width and length especially after being singled is the same or llittle more than the truck. Basically I am stock but will have to start upgrades if I want better reliablity and a little better performance. LP(relocated on frame 1/2 inch line), NO VP yet(knock on wood), RV275 injectors or similiar, Smarty, Turbo( not sure if I do I would replace my current HX with a hybrid HX I think), Clutch maybe. As for the tractor would love to have a condo sleeper and converted so it could be used for those overnighters rather than haul the 5er. Of course there is also the wow factor. Yep when something breaks it is more expensive but it seems fewer things break on the class8 than the pickup.



Heck wife won't drive my 3500 but at least she has; so in emergency she can. No reason she could not drive the Class 8; the question is will she!!!!