Clauged filter on diesel pump = slow fill up and some Qs

[JWillms]

Went on a road trip last week to Colorado (trip went well and it was a blast driving the Cummins there and back) Well on the last day woke up early to hit the road, looked at my diesel guage and needed to fill up OK no biggy. Well what felt like 30 mins at the pump I finaly filler her up. This was the slowest pump in the world, my truck had time to jump into and back out of high idle mode. Well Ill make a long story short, roomate gets back in after he payed (it was his turn to pay for diesel) and tells me that the reason the pump was so slow is becuse the filter on the pump was clauged. So my question is do I need to change the filter on my truck becusee I got a bunch of junk from that fill up, or am I fine and it was a slow fillup becuse the diesel just took longer to go threw the clauged filer. My truck ran fine and I have filled up twice sience then both times a populer busy places and havent had anyproblems. The truck allso has allmost 12k and I planed on changing the filter at 15k so should I just wate tell then or do it now?

Justin<><

 

[y-knot]

This is pretty standard with some stations, they just don't keep up with the needs of their equipment. The good news is fueling stations filter there fuel before passing it along to you or anyone else. The bad news is there are some very good reasons that they have to filter this fuel. As odd as it sounds, there are certain forms of allege that actually like living in a tank full of diesel. These can be controlled with certain chemicals, but are not always addressed. Also, next time you are ate the station, look at where the fuel truck dumps his load. It is a thru that opening you see in the driveway. So every time the driver removes the cover, any and all things in the area fall into the tank along with the new fuel. You can see that the driveway is full of dirt, concrete pieces, gravel, you name it. This heavier stuff usually falls to the bottom of the tank where it is harmless, but much of it doesn't and hopefully the filter picks it up, along with any allege. The filters are a reflection of the management, well organized stations stay abreast of the problem and change their filters on a pro-active schedule. Others, well you have seen how they do things. Most all filtering systems have a by-pass designed into them, so when that pump is running slow because of dirty filters, yes there is a good chance this dirt is being passed along to you. I would not run out and change my filter because of it, but it is important to realize what is happening. If a local fueling spot constantly has this problem, then I would change where I do business.

I follow two basic rules, 1. ) Don't go back to anyone that provided bad service (dirty filters). 2. ) Never fill-up at a station, that is in the process of receiving fuel (the tanker truck is dumping it's load). The first is explained in the top of the article, but the second reason is when the tanker is pumping his fuel from his truck to the underground tank, is stirs up all the crap that is laing on the tank's floor, none of which is good for your truck.

The filters on your truck should be serviced regularly and often. The whole ideal is to change them while everything is working OK, and before they get clogged. The interval between fuel filter services may vary from place to place, some areas may have dirtier fuel then others. I think 10,000 miles is a reasonable interval, and would not go beyond that.

 

[QRTRHRS]

More than once, I have seen pumps pump slow. Release the pump handle but don't shut off the pump itself. Let it set 15 seconds or so and try again. Loss of prime? I don't know.

 

[JWillms]

Thanks for the replys guys. Yeah I figured I would just change the filter here pretty soon. I didnt know about that alge that can grow in there thats kind of weird. I usually pass up on stations that have the truck there becuse of the crap that those tanks stur up but I didnt know about the first one, dont have to worry about that station it was in Colorado and I dont think Im going back for a while. thanks Y-Knot.

Justin<><

 

[JCamper]

JWillms, what you experienced is a symptom of the leak detector for the diesel turbine being closed. How modern gas station systems work, is there is a turbine on each product, which once the handle gets picked up and the dispenser activated, actually pushes fuel toward the dispenser. There are leak detectors mounted on the turbines which sense very small movements in the fuel. If the dispensers(pumps) sit all night, often there will be a very minor amount of seepage at the pump handle or swivel fitting. The leak detector senses this and it is basically a butterfly valve, which snaps closed. It will reset itself when it sees the turbine energized and no fuel movement, therefore it knows there is no leak. So what QRTRHRS said is true. Just make sure the pump is on, and NO ONE PUMPING THAT PRODUCT is pumping. Wait for about 30 seconds to a minute, and it will work like a charm. Just a fyi, if this happens and you are using "Plus" gasoline, you need to make sure no one pumps any gasoline for that period of time, because plus is mixed right at the dispenser, it is 60% low octane, 40% high octane. I know, long first post, but oh well! Jc

 

[Buffalo]

I was at the Flying J , in Phoenix, when all their pumps were just drizzleing fuel. Took forever (half hour) to fill up. I asked about the problem and they said that when they were low on fuel the slowness in their pumps would occur. Joe.

 

[CGriffith]

JCamper

You wrote

"because plus is mixed right at the dispenser, it is 60% low octane, 40% high octane".



I'm not trying to dispute what you said, as I have no knowledge of the subject, but how do you know this is true?



An old drag racer once told me that I should run 50/50 Regular and Premium to keep a high compression motor from detonating(pinging). He said that 50/50 mix would make the engine think it was running on 100 octane or something. I wrote it off as B. S. If what you say is true it is B. S. for sure. But then again this guy set some NHRA records with the dragster he built motor and all. Just lookin' for some info.

Welcome to the TDR!!!

thanks,

Griff

 

[JCamper]

Buffalo, could be, I don't know, but with my system, it will pump at full speed until it is completely empty. I have been down to just a few inches a couple times, and no noticable difference at the dispensers.



CGriffith, I agree that info is a huge, whopping load. About the 60/40, when I calculate my fuel sold to gallonage left, it is right on the money. That is what the guys that installed the dispensers say is standard, and also my distributor says the same. I have one large tank with divider in it, holds @13k gallons unleaded, 6k gallons super. Then a separate tank that holds 15k gallons diesel. I have a cardlock out back for trucks, and normal dispensers, with 4 diesel handles up front.



Just for your information, if anyone is curious, the retail dispensers all have a spin-on filter, right before the hose of each product. So even though Plus is mixed, it still runs through a filter right before it hits the hose. There is no bypass mode on these filters like the old systems used to have. So fuel is always filtered. Also, the best filters I could find were 10 micron nominal. The cardlock dispensers have large spin-on filters, but they only filter to 30 micron nominal, which is enough of a reason for me to always fill up at the retail islands when traveling. Hope this helps, have a good one. jc

 

[CGriffith]

JCamper

Thanks for the great post!! I think you answered a lot of questions for many of us. I believe your going to be our go to guy on fuel quality questions-hope you don't mind lots a questions

I am wondering what brand of fuel your station sells? If some of the local TDR members know where your at you might see an increase in sales. Oo.

Any insider details of the fuel sales market you can send our way would be interesting too. Could you define cardlock dispensers for us? I assume they're pumps that you actually have to pay inside for?

Also I'm wondering why my local mid grade prices here in CO don't reflect the 60/40 mix.

For example $1. 723x0. 6 + $1. 923x0. 4=$1. 803 but they charge $1. 843.

Does this mean mixing reg and premium myself will save $0. 045?

Thanks for the info.

Griff

 

[JCamper]

Okay, CGriffith, you asked for it, here you go. Yes, you could save money by mixing yourself for the plus generally. Most places (myself included) just go ten cents up from regular unleaded in pricing. There isn't actually a 10 cent spread in cost though, so we make a bit more usually on the higher priced products. I sell Texaco fuel for now, who knows what I will be come middle of summer when my contract expires. Kind of looking at what I should do.

Here is the run down on fuel pricing, at least as it applies to my region. I generally take my wholesale and add 12 cents on the unleaded regular, and 10 cents for diesel. AHA, but wait, before I get skinned alive, let me explain it more fully. Half of my customers use credit cards. My fees on those generally run 2 to 3%. So at an average fuel cost of 1. 50 I lost about 5 cents worth of margin from half my customers. Also, I get a "drive-off" where somebody doesn't pay, frequently, which is usually upwards of 50 bucks. So if you figure I make 8 cents a gallon, it took 625 gallons just to break even for that drive off. So 937 dollars worth of fuel sales can be negated by one &^%$*&^. Then you figure in maintenance costs, handles, swivel fittings, receipt paper, all free air(fittings get stolen frequently), water, squeegees(also kiped like their going out of style), etc. etc. Basically it boils down to me actually making about 2 or 3 cents a gallon. I am not including labor, insurance, etc. because I have a c-store also, but if it was just gas... . well, you can see it wouldn't work. What this means is that if I could raise my price 3 cents, I could double my profits on fuel. Or if I don't get those extra 3 cents, it really hurts.



Okay, costs. My actual fuel cost for unleaded at this moment is 1. 819. Premium is 1. 969. Diesel is 1. 889. Diesel went up 8 cents on the 6th, and 7 cents today.



Cash flow. How most branded, non oil company owned stations work, is all my credit card sales, including in-store go into my distributor's account, which then gets credited toward my fuel purchases. I still have to pay cash for the remainder when it gets delivered. So before I can buy that high-priced fuel, I have to have the money in the bank. So generally I try to take price increases when they happen, unless I have a LOT of fuel in the ground. Reason? Well, invarably, the first day the price drops, some station owner in town is out of fuel, and is able to drop his price immediately, so in order to sell fuel, I am forced to follow. So I try to make a little extra as it goes up, and hope it comes down slow. Hah, good luck.



In order to help defray my customer's costs and put some more money in my account, I offer a 3 cent/gallon discount for cash. That way I make more than if they used a credit card, and they pay less.



Sorry for the long post, feel free to ask any other questions you may have. jc

 

[JCamper]

Oh yeah, regarding the cardlock thing, that generally refers to a CFN or Pacific Pride, etc. where there are no prices posted, and you turn on the dispensers by swiping a card. In my case, I am neither of those, I just call it that, sorry to be confusing. I simply have a separate island out back for fueling large trucks. It works just like the islands up front in all other respects.



Hope that helps. jc

 

[RankRam]

JCamper thanks for the informative post.