Clutch Exploded

[giarc1234]

I am buying an 04 Dodge 3500 single wheel Cummins from an estate sale for a steel of a price, has not ran in 4 years and the last time it did the PO exploded the clutch in the driveway. It has the NV5600 trans in it, I have not took possession of it as of yet, but have looked under the truck and it is a mess down there.

The Trans case looks fine and the truck was in natural when it let loose so suspect it to no be damaged, but everything between the trans and motor block will need to be replaced.

This is new platform to me and I have just started searching around and discovered that the bell housing on the NV5600 is not easy to remove or replace.

Is there a online Service/parts manual that I can buy for that year that will break down the parts I will need to purchase? I am assuming that the plate that attaches to the block is called the "adapter plate?

Thank you,

 

[petersonj]

Can you give more detail about "not ran in 4 years and the last time it did the PO exploded the clutch in the driveway."? I am not sure how one would explode a clutch in the driveway.

- John

 

[Diesel Gunner]

Can you give more detail about "not ran in 4 years and the last time it did the PO exploded the clutch in the driveway."? I am not sure how one would explode a clutch in the driveway.

- John

I am not sure either, but it has gotten me thinking. Install concrete bollards for tie downs, and practice 4-wheel burnouts? Or just go to a dyno day and try really hard to impress your friends?

 

[Tuesdak]

Did anything go through the floor boards? You might find a chunk of flywheel lodged up in the dashboard.

Is this clutch failure the “reason” for the estate sale?!

With the NV5600 is is best to have it rebuilt by an expert. Also check the crankshaft for being bent.

Standard Transmission and Gear is one of the experts.

 

[giarc1234]

I really Do not know how it happened, The truck had been sitting in the same spot for a while and the owner apparently (From an other neighbor) went out and started it and was revving it up and the clutch let go. I asked him prior to him dying if I could buy it from him and he said he was going to have it fixed and there it sat for the next 4 years. The chunks of bell housing are right under the trans, and the fuel lines were cut when it let loose. I am at a loss of how or why it happened, I have not seen anything like this before, but for 500 bucks it is worth me buying it and trying to get it running. Not sure the miles yet, but the body and interior (minus the hole) are in great shape. It was an older guy who bought it new and pulled a car trailer with it, not lifted or any crazy mods to it.

The bell housing and adapter plate are shattered and all the pieces are under the truck. There is a softball size hole in the drivers side floor board from a chunk of the bell housing, the wiring harness is ripped in half and the metal fuel lines are cut that run along the frame.

I wish I was there and witnessed how it happened, I really do.

 

[GCroyle]

Pics and things will get more interesting.

I’m predicting pressure plate casting is OVERHEATED and chunked out into destructive sections of shrapnel.

Did you see predicting?

 

[giarc1234]

The guy passed away and that is the reason for the estate sale. The estate does not want to deal with it and sold it to me.

I was worried about the crank being bent too, will have to get that checked for sure. Any ideas on how to do that, does that mean to pull it out to have it checked?

The plan is to have it rebuilt if the parts are available still.

Did anything go through the floor boards? You might find a chunk of flywheel lodged up in the dashboard.

Is this clutch failure the “reason” for the estate sale?!

With the NV5600 is is best to have it rebuilt by an expert. Also check the crankshaft for being bent.

Standard Transmission and Gear is one of the experts.

 

[giarc1234]

I have a video on my phone, but will take some pictures and post them.

Pics and things will get more interesting.

I’m predicting pressure plate casting is OVERHEATED and chunked out into destructive sections of shrapnel.

Did you see predicting?

 

[BigPapa]

I am not sure how one would explode a clutch in the driveway.

- John

And, in NEUTRAL.....

 

[giarc1234]

And, in NEUTRAL.....

I am thinking the same thing

 

[GCroyle]

Others will chime in but checking a crank in the block might be as simple as mounting a NEW flywheel, setup a real good dial indicator and check face and OD runout.

Nope don’t pull injectors just get a barring tool and crank it over very controlled by hand with a ratchet.

Find runout now it gets uglier.

But cart is well in front of horse so far.

 

[sag2]

It very well could have been an engine overspeed that caused it.

This is what happens when the clutch slips, overheats, and blows up. This one broke the block, bell housing, crank, and pretty much everything else in the way. It left parts in my driveway as wall as the neighbors driveway across the street.

 

[Tuesdak]

I wish I was there and witnessed how it happened, I really do.

Google " Diesel Engine Runaway "

No, No, you don't want to be there. EVER, PERIOD.

I wasn't kidding about asking IF this was the reason they died. Looks like it used one of their 9 lives though.

The Deepwater Horizon's fire started when the Diesel Generators snorted the major gas blowout from the well AND the air shutoff devices didn't work. Generators revved till they blew up and that lit the gas off ... and the Drilling Rig.

The Starting Fluid clue from the other thread is useful here.

I am going to take it easy for sure and rotate the motor, this is incase I need to have the motor rebuilt, from talking to other neighbors that were there when it happened, he was spraying starting fluid and it revved up until it exploded. hoping nothing in the motor is messed up, but planning if I have to. always good to have a shop in mind and do research prior.

The engine ran away off the starting fluid. It may have busted something from the starting fluid explosion(s) and ran away on it's own oil. It stopped when something broke, it locked up, ran out of oil and locked up, or ran out of Fuel. "Fuel = starting fluid, engine oil, etc." Yes, Diesel is also fuel but not likely relevant in this case.

The clutch exploded from too high of an RPM.

Leakdown test and compression test are a good idea unless you have a hole in the block from a popped rod condemning it outright. Hopefully the crank isn't broke with some still attached to a chunk of the flywheel lodged in the bell housing or elsewhere.

IF you decide to start this engine you should have a safe way to stop a run away. Don't assume it was just starting fluid that caused the run away.

I see an engine rebuild in your future. If so I'd throw away the rod bolts from the extreme RPM and check the rods for cracks or outright replace them. New pushrods just to be sure. I would bet money the valves are bent. Luck would be no cracks in the castings: head/block but take the time to have them checked.

 

[Ozymandias]

Google for "factory service manual pdf dodge ram 2004", you can find them online for free. It's huge, thousands of pages.

 

[CharlesinGA]

I have a '03 NV5600 and have done a lot of studying on it. The bellhousing IS the front case of the transmission. The transmission requires quite a few special tools to disassemble/reassemble it. Parts are becoming scarce (out of production since about '05) and New Venture out of business. It takes someone with the knowledge and skill, plus the tools to do the work on this. At the very minimum, the gear shafts will need to have the end play reset/shimmed to match the new bellhousing/front case and replacement of the shaft seals during that process. The transmission weighs @490 lbs and the gear sets require special hoisting tools to remove the internals as a unit, as they weigh @200 lbs (leaving 290 lbs worth of bellhousing, main case, tailstock. After determining the engine is still operable and undamaged, your best bet is to

1) exchange the complete transmission to one of the very few rebuilders in the country, for a ready to install unit, or.......

(and this is my choice) 2) install an Allison 1000 6 speed automatic using CAC Conversions components. There is also a chance that the large aluminum plate on the rear of the block that the bellhousing bolts to is damaged, and possibly the starter also. If this is the case, the Allison conversion looks better and better, as those components are replaced during the conversion.

or... 3) obtain a complete G56 Getrag transmission and install it (it is much lighter as it is an all aluminum case) and is a very good transmission.

In either 2) or 3) you also get to sell the remains of the NV5600 to one of the rebuilders of this, to offset the cost of a conversion.

Charles

 

[BigPapa]

Hello, Charles. Welcome to TDR.

To have done a lot of studying on trannies you’ve got a lot wrong. The bell housing is not part of the case on the NV5600 but it is on the G56. The G56 is made by Mercedes, not Getrag. As for a rebuild, I’d go with Standard Transmission. They do them everyday and don’t seem to have problems with parts.

Is your truck stock or modified? How do you use the truck? Daily driver? Heavy towing? Racing or pulling? Is it RWD or 4x4?

Forget the Allison. They’re not what some seem to think they are. It can’t handle shifting under throttle and requires a controller to de-fuel the engine for shifts. And, a manual to auto swap is going to be the most difficult of transmission swaps.

There are many that have converted to the G56 and have had good service from them. It’s a good transmission for stock to slightly modified trucks, but I have seen failures of the G56 in high performance applications due to the long shafts with no center support.

If it was my truck and wanted something better than the NV5600, I’d go with the Ford ZF6. All the benefits of the G56 without the chance of the shaft flex.

 

[CharlesinGA]

https://blog.genosgarage.com/wordpr...lding-the-nv5600-transmission/#comment-111884

#ad


The front end of the main case. It is just an empty hole; the bellhousing/front plate is the part that retains the components.

#ad


This lifting tool facilitates picking up the assembly without the components spreading apart in order to put it into the front end of the transmission case (bellhousing). This assembly is heavy enough that the rebuilder uses a hoist to pick it up (190 pounds).

The assembly is placed into the bellhousing before the main case is installed. The main case weights 88 pounds and the tailhousing weighs 54 pounds.

Installing the input and main gear trains, the cluster assembly, and the shift forks and rails. These components must all be installed simultaneously into the bellhousing/front case. This photo makes it clear that the bellhousing is far more than a simple bellhousing like the NV4500 uses. This photo shows that it is also the front plate and assembly alignment fixture for the NV5600 transmission.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Deleted

 

[BigPapa]

OK, I was wrong on the bell housing.....

Every once in a while I forget what my foot tastes like and have to remind myself....

 

[mwilson]

OK, I was wrong on the bell housing.....

Every once in a while I forget what my foot tastes like and have to remind myself....

If you put yourself out there it can happen…it’s a wonder I can still walk after having both feet in my mouth on more than one occasion..